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How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

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Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#41
post #17
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

Yes, it is generally accepted. But people don't like it. For example it explains why there are more men in high-status positions, which again, people don't like, and try to rail against ("We need more women in XYZ!"). For an even more "untouchable" subject try: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

> Yes, it is generally accepted. But people don't like it. For example it explains why there are more men in high-status positions, which again, people don't like, and try to rail against ("We need more women in XYZ!").

It's important to remember that high IQ and high-status positions don't correlate. High IQ is no indicator for success in live. If you actually measure people with higher societal status, you'll probably find quite a few with high IQ. But we must not interpret that in any way, because that's hindsight bias: We don't see all the high-IQ people not in high-status positions.

Psychologically, the more relevant variable for success in live is motivation.

(As a sidenote, IQ itself is by no means an objective measurement. The theories of intelligence are and were strongly influenced by the respective world views of its creators. Cattell for example, the inventor of fluid and crystallized intelligence, most probably differentiated between both as a way to explain racial differences: Everybody has crystallized intelligence, but only the white have highly developed fluid intelligence. He distanced himself from his early views a few months before his death, but the theory remained popular for many decades.)

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#43

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

Yeah the challenge is the way we attach value judgements to the different things genders tend (generalization) to be better at.

This is purely anecdotal, but in my extended family many members believed the "we're all the same" view. I was given whatever toys I wanted whether they were considered masculine or feminine. It challenged people to see me grow up and be obsessed with heavy machinery - something they obviously saw within a masculine stereotype.

EDIT: I'm male

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#44

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

Having lived through so much of the polictically correct conditioning about equality of everybody I became pretty numb to it. Then having a child and seeing the stark difference between play habits of boys and girls made me think about it again. Anecdotal, of course, although consistent with many other people's anecdotes, which starts to look like data after a while.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#45

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

> Men and women, on average, differ significantly

The linked article explicitly does not take any stance on that. What the article points out is that males are more extreme in their traits, eg. exceptionally tall or exceptionally short, which in no way means that there are average differences. Even if the deviation is different, the mean may be the same.

Not that I'm saying that those differences are or are not there, but to say that the current differences are entirely due to biological differences would seem a bit naive to me.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#46

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

I thought the 'there is no differences' thing was debunked completely?

There will always be warriors against everything who will claim gender is just conditioning or whatever and probsly get eyeballs and publishing as a result. Happily you can completely ignore all that and lead a happy and productive life knowing the gender you were born with has a big factor in determining what you choose to do in your life.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#47
This article claims,

> Last time we discovered that the brain of a woman is composed of two different types of cells.

but if you actually read the last article, it has this example of mixed types of cells:

> Surprisingly, there are some human females who also show a rather similar calico pattern ... for a very small number of women, if you were to look closely on a hot day, you would see a calico pattern appear on their skin.

The "very small number of women" gets quickly forgotten, suddenly it is all cells in all females:

> Females, both in their bodies, and their brains, are a patchwork of two different types of cells

and the "very small number" caveat is completely forgotten by the second article.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#48
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

The weak point in all of this is the definition of IQ - since there is no obvious one the motivated researchers can manipulate it to have more or less difference in both value and variation between the sexes (or other groups).

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#49

I'm surprised to see this ranking so high on HN. Sex-based difference is the biggest taboo of our time. The current educational and political system is organized toward exclusively presenting the view that gender is a cultural construct and there are no differences between men and women other than plumbing. Men and women, on average, differ significantly on career choice, likes, dislikes, and motivation. And, it has…

> Men and women, on average, differ significantly The linked article explicitly does not take any stance on that. What the article points out is that males are more extreme in their traits, eg. exceptionally tall or exceptionally short, which in no way means that there are average differences. Even if the deviation is different, the mean may be the same. Not that I'm saying that those differences are or are not there…

More extremes in males is true, but height was exactly one problem where the mean really deviates and the curve is pretty much the same. IQ was one where males have way more extremes than women.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#50
post #19
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

One usual citation is Global Sex Differences in Test Score Variability (DOI: 10.1126/science.1162573). It uses standardized test scores. I quote findings below. Remarks inside parentheses are mine. "The third column in table S1, reports the estimated male/female variance ratios with standard errors in parentheses. In all but five countries (There are 41 countries) we can reject the hypothesis that the variance ratio…

I should look at this study more carefully before commenting, but I would assume there are genetic as well as cultural differences in those 5 countries with no statistical male/female IQ difference.
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