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How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

psychologytoday.com

21–30 of 297 posts

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is generally accepted. But people don't like it. For example it explains why there are more men in high-status positions, which again, people don't like, and try to rail against ("We need more women in XYZ!"). For an even more "untouchable" subject try: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

There's a 60/40 male/female split in that graph for people with IQ's of 140. First, you don't need an IQ of 140 to have a high-status position. Second, the male/female ratio for high-status positions is much higher than 60/40.

Yes, it is a partial explanation.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#22
post #14
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

I think so. I've heard (and repeated) it many times, and I don't recall ever hearing it disputed. I'd be surprised and embarrassed if it was untrue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligenc... says it's controversial near the top. But the citation is a single paper which disagrees, and the rest of the article seems to support the hypothesis. edit: removed "unpublished"

How can you tell it is not published? It seemed to me that it had been published in the American psychologist according to [1].

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16366817

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#23
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

Some answers here: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/7093/do-men-show... Intuitively it made much sense for me when I was in high school and trying to figure out the world. People perceive high, even extreme intelligence as some beneficial trait, but I don't think that's how we should look at things. Evolution does not care about men as much as it does about women. Man can be far from being best fit for rai…

> Man can be far from being best fit for raising children and still forward his genes to next generation.

This would seem to predict that men show less variance than women in whether or not they forward their genes. They actually show more.

Why would too high intelligence make someone a worse parent?

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#24
post #22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so. I've heard (and repeated) it many times, and I don't recall ever hearing it disputed. I'd be surprised and embarrassed if it was untrue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligenc... says it's controversial near the top. But the citation is a single paper which disagrees, and the rest of the article seems to support the hypothesis. edit: removed "unpublished"

How can you tell it is not published? It seemed to me that it had been published in the American psychologist according to [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16366817

My bad. It looks like the link was to a pre-publication draft, but it has indeed since been published.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#25
post #17
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

Yes, it is generally accepted. But people don't like it. For example it explains why there are more men in high-status positions, which again, people don't like, and try to rail against ("We need more women in XYZ!"). For an even more "untouchable" subject try: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Well, it doesn't "explain why" - it correlates, which is a radical difference.

https://xkcd.com/552/

;-)

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#26
The next article in this series on "Which sex is playing higher stakes reproductive game?" is also worth reading: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-diff...

It reminds me of an interesting hypothesis I've read about the other day that the concept marriage plays a significant role in the success of our culture as it counteracts this difference. It allows more men to reach a social status at which they are motivated to be productive members of society. So we are possibly actively destroying a pillar of our culture as we are devaluing marriage.

By the way, Veritasium has a great episode on why women are stripey: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BD6h-wDj7bw

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#27
post #10
post #9

Is it generally accepted in the relevant scientific communities that male IQ's exhibit more variance than female IQ's? I imagine this type of thing would be easy to verify via e.g. standardized test scores.

It's quite easy to ignore even very clear evidence when it goes against one's politics. And that kind of result is massively politicised for obvious reasons (e.g. there are clear differences on standardized test scores - but some argue this reflects biases in the tests themselves).

One bias is so-called "stereotype threat".

> negative stereotypes raise inhibiting doubts and high-pressure anxieties in a test-taker's mind... even passing reminders that someone belongs to one group or another, such as a group stereotyped as inferior in academics, can wreak havoc with test performance.

http://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype.aspx

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337/stereotype-threat-wh...

http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/news/2008/1/29/Stereotype_Threat_A...

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some answers here: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/7093/do-men-show... Intuitively it made much sense for me when I was in high school and trying to figure out the world. People perceive high, even extreme intelligence as some beneficial trait, but I don't think that's how we should look at things. Evolution does not care about men as much as it does about women. Man can be far from being best fit for rai…

> Man can be far from being best fit for raising children and still forward his genes to next generation. This would seem to predict that men show less variance than women in whether or not they forward their genes. They actually show more. Why would too high intelligence make someone a worse parent?

Helicopter parents = bad parents, usually = high intelligence parents. Same thing can be true in reverse.

The GP is arguing that men have the luxury to propagate their genes even if they do not make good parents, while women have to be a good parent in order to make their offspring survive to adulthood.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#29
It's interesting to realize that if two groups have the same mean but different variability, the higher-variability group will have more outliers, on both the high end and the low end.

The danger is a kind of genetic fatalism, assuming that what we should do is just to be determined by our genes and how our bodies work. For example, it's possible for a man to produce many children by impregnating lots of women concurrently. I get the feeling that some men decide that the way that a person wins life is that they reproduce as much of their genetic material as possible, so they try to win. It seems like this kind of justification is used to excuse a wide variety of bad behavior: cheating, rape, women as chattel, etc.

It's debatable whether the argument made by the article is actually a real thing, and how much it contributes to the inequality we see in the world. I think social effects have a bigger influence.

But even if we took the argument as fact, it doesn't mean that we have to accept every naive consequence. We don't need to say "Of course the vast majority of CEOs, world leaders, and very wealthy people are male, because the most intelligent people are almost all male". We can choose to have a better society than that.

Re: How Can There Still Be a Sex Difference, Even When There Is No Sex Difference?

#30
Are there or are there no differences is one discussion, sure. A much more interesting one to me is - if yes/no, then what? What does that imply? This articles notes that the answer is yes (but apparently, it's still debatable), but it then goes on into why, which is interesting.

I welcome differences. Recognizing and accepting them is the first meaningful step towards any worthwhile societal value adoption.

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