This Industry is Fucked • Hacker News Board

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#211

Post by forgottenpass » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 10:42 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #162

tzs wrote: post #157

Several thoughts, some reasonable and some probably stupid, split into separate comments so the reasonable parts can be discussed and the stupid parts torn apart separately:

Part 3. Since the power that the attackers have in these messages is the reaction of the recipient, it might be possible to turn this around. In part 2, I suggested filtering and trashing (or sharing for research into de-anonymizing the senders). How about going beyond ignoring the empty idiots and embracing their idiocy? Make a game of this. Have a scoring systems where you get points based on the number of threats…

Since the power that the attackers have in these messages is the reaction of the recipient, it might be possible to turn this around.

Yes, but not by using the mechanism you go on to describe. You simply have to show the harasser that their harassment doesn't bother you. The points system won't convey that to a troll. Worrying about trolls enough to join into such a system validates, not defuses, their efforts.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#212

Post by marcus_holmes » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 10:59 AM UTC

forgottenpass wrote: post #210

marcus_holmes wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, fair point. So you don't like taking blame for other people's bad actions, even if those others are part of your community. I get that. We're also having that discussion around Islam too. But to my mind, this is what makes a community a community. If good things happen we all share credit, so when bad things happen we all share blame. We, collectively, respond to events together. And we police ourselves, which is…

Your post has inadvertently cemented how little sense of community I get from being a "tech" person. Tech doesn't feel like a town hall meeting in a new home I just haven't integrated with yet, it feels like commuting into NYC for work and looking around on a subway car. I don't know what shared credit or shame I take part in sharing that is specific enough to identify with. Do we really respond to events together? A…

Well the way this is playing out for the Muslims isn't great for them.

If the same follows for us, then any self-identified member of the tech community will automatically be suspected of being an asshole by everyone else.

I have no idea whether your plan to not identify with the tech community will work. Maybe you're right and it's grown too much to be seen as a single community. Be interesting to find out.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#213

Post by forgottenpass » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:08 AM UTC

astrocyte wrote: post #53

Kapura wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not common?" Really? This SEEMS pretty common. And while I believe it's true that not every woman in tech gets harassed, it's obvious that a much higher percentage of them get this sort of shit than men. And it only gets worse as they get more visible for the good work that they're doing. You say you're tired of this shit. How do you think these women feel? It's not you writing the tweets and emails, but if you beco…

This isn't pretty common nor are any of the off the wall comments and threats she's getting serious. It's called trolling. Have you been on the internet in the last decade? If you're dumb enough to let someone get under your skin, they will and will do so even more. I'm a minority. Do you know the kind of shit I've had to deal w/ in tech. Note the 'deal with'. Were supposedly in a society where women are demanding to…

You have a relateable experience people could learn from. But they don't like the message, so they'll resort to the media approved category of blame (sexism). I appreciated your posts in this thread and wish you didn't get so thoroughly downvoted.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#214

Post by LGBT_2000 » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:15 AM UTC

This is disgusting.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#215

Post by LGBT_2000 » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:34 AM UTC

It's offensive how whenever topics of bigotry and hatred in tech come up, the ensuing conversation is always dominated by regular commenters (typically privileged white males) giving their two cents on something they've never experienced and have no way of relating to. Here's a radical idea: if you're actually interested in supporting and being an ally of women, people of color, LGBTQs and other minorities DO sit back, let them speak and listen. DO NOT inject your own unsubstantiated and unhelpful opinions into a topic you by definition cannot relate to.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#216

Post by rjbwork » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 12:19 PM UTC

shykes wrote: post #206

rjbwork wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get what is going on here. Why are people spamming her with death/rape threats? There doesn't really seem to be any context given. Is it literally that someone decided that she was a good harassment target for completely unknown reasons? Why is she a notable figure?

Obviously it's hard to know for sure. But most likely this is the work of "harassment hobbyists" who have no particular agenda other than the moronic thrill of messing with people from the safety of their keyboards. There is a great explanation elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9836242 Most likely, Jess appeared on their radar because she is a very active and popular maintainer of Docker,…

Ahh, I see. I, for some reason, came to the conclusion that she worked for Docker coding Docker the company stuff, not coding Docker the project stuff.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#217

Post by vilmosi » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 12:20 PM UTC

__z wrote: post #140

bsder wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss." I'm tired of people whining in a blog post instead of calling the police. Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile case…

What makes you think she didn't call the police? http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome... "Two hours later, a Palm Springs police officer lumbered up the steps to my hotel room, paused on the outdoor threshold, and began questioning me in a steady clip. I wheeled through the relevant background information: I am a journalist; I live in Los Angeles; sometimes, people don’t like what I write abou…

Um... Twitter isn't nearly as prevalent as people in the tech industry think it is.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#218

Post by shykes » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

rjbwork wrote: post #216

shykes wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it's hard to know for sure. But most likely this is the work of "harassment hobbyists" who have no particular agenda other than the moronic thrill of messing with people from the safety of their keyboards. There is a great explanation elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9836242 Most likely, Jess appeared on their radar because she is a very active and popular maintainer of Docker,…

Ahh, I see. I, for some reason, came to the conclusion that she worked for Docker coding Docker the company stuff, not coding Docker the project stuff.

Those are the same thing :) Everything Docker builds is open-source and built together with the community. The exception is Docker Hub, our cloud service which is built by a separate team.

So, Jess is a core maintainer of Docker who happens to work full time for Docker inc.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#219

Post by EliRivers » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 12:37 PM UTC

MollyR wrote: post #36

88e282102ae2e5b wrote: post #6

I just want to understand why people do this. If some men were afraid of losing their jobs because of a big influx of women I'd at least comprehend (but definitely not agree with) that behavior, but it's a job free-for-all now and seems like it always will be, so I just can't see what the motivation could possibly be. If they're just pure sociopaths, why don't they harass men this way as well?

http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/ It looks like both genders are harassed quite a bit, younger people being harassed more. What surprised me in this article was men being physically threatened more than women.

I suspect that if you put threats of rape into the physical threats bucket (it is, of course, a physical threat, but it often gets its own bucket, or gets put into a sexual harassment bucket) the results might be different.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#220

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 1:33 PM UTC

icu wrote: post #202

jessaustin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good attitude about insults aimed at you. However, many people have lived lives that make such a healthy attitude impossible for them. I don't think progress is served by saying, "well it sucks that little girls are taught to stay 'safe' by taking the opinions of fuckwits seriously but I didn't teach them that so tough shit!" I doubt there's a magic bullet, but it would be better if we could build communic…

Hi, well firstly it saddens me somewhat that you think I was suggesting that, as you put it, "well it sucks that little girls are taught to stay 'safe' by taking the opinions of fuckwits seriously but I didn't teach them that so tough shit!" Honestly for me it's not about sex. I believe men and women are in fact equal and anything less than that is ignorance. As for a 'silver bullet', there won't ever be one. Best I…

I'm glad that you're sad. You certainly did suggest that this person who has reacted differently to trolls than you imagine you would in her situation should "take a break from being in the public eye". If you think about it a little you'll see why my paraphrase of your sentiment is pretty fucking exact. Then you can change your mind and not be sad anymore.