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A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

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Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#51

Post by lucaspiller »

ghgr wrote: post #40
lucaspiller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am kind of in this situation so I'll chime in: I quit my full time job nearly two years ago and since then have been freelancing and contracting remotely. I'm now taking a 'sabbatical' for a couple of months over the summer to recharge and hopefully start my own business. I've had a lot of people asking me when I'm getting a job again, as I assume they aren't in a financial position to be able to do this so wonder…

> Although I have been lucky to have some jobs that reimburse me well, I also don't have a car, house, wife (that's happening next month!) or go out drinking. I find amusing that you include "wife" with all the other expenses. You'll become DINKYs ("Dual Income, No Kids Yet") and thus you will have even more financial independence :-). By the way, congratulations! > [..] but I've been following the bootstrapped commu…

> You'll become DINKYs ("Dual Income, No Kids Yet") and thus you will have even more financial independence

Haha, thanks! She is currently studying, and we will probably have kids in the next coupe of years - when we do she wants to take care of them rather than working, so unfortunately not! At least being Europeans we have good social welfare.

> Could you please share the name of the community?

There isn't a HackerNews-for-bootstrappers, at least I've found nothing worthwhile. There are a lot of disparate communities depending on what area you want to get into (e.g. creating a consulting agency, building a SaaS, internet marketing, brick-and-mortar business, etc). Most of what I follow revolves around Microconf, here are a few notable podcasts:

http://bootstrapped.fm/

http://www.bootstrappedwithkids.com/

http://nightsandweekendspodcast.com/

http://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/

http://www.tropicalmba.com/

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#52

Post by anticon »

onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

People starting companies are driven, determined people who want to create things.

The vast majority of people are not. You're vastly over-estimating the general population. The majority are lazy, and if given money, will sit watching reality TV and stuffing their face with ice cream. (Step outside the startup bubble for a while). Most people are also selfish. The idea that they'll all start doing things to benefit others is a bit far fetched.

Communism (Which is what this is), has failed. Why this generation seems determined to try it again is beyond me.

This is about stealing money from the successful, and giving it to everyone, regardless of merit. It's a fantastic way to reward failure and penalise success, and society will suffer because of it. The numbers are also staggering - it just doesn't work mathematically unless you can magic up billions from somewhere each year.

Also be under no illusion - if a basic income was implemented, the chances are (Assuming you're better off than the average person) you would have to reduce your quality of life substantially to pay for it.

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#53

Post by tomp »

wozniacki wrote: post #47
onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

If a government were to do that for everyone it seems pretty obvious that society will be better off - people will spend their time working on things to improve everyone's life rather than worrying about how to afford their rent The incredulity of this is plainly galling. How does one draw a broad conclusion like that? Plenty of European examples abound where despite generous - some would argue very generous - state…

Benefits incentivize you to not work, because if you do, you lose benefits.

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#54

Post by [deleted] »

naz wrote: post #49
wozniacki wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a government were to do that for everyone it seems pretty obvious that society will be better off - people will spend their time working on things to improve everyone's life rather than worrying about how to afford their rent The incredulity of this is plainly galling. How does one draw a broad conclusion like that? Plenty of European examples abound where despite generous - some would argue very generous - state…

You're woefully misinformed about exactly how generous benefits in the UK are. People who do manage to live off benefits here can't expect a quality of life that even begins to approach comfortable. You shouldn't let some opportunistic reality TV show be the basis for your world views.

[deleted]

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#55

Post by DanBC »

wozniacki wrote: post #47
onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

If a government were to do that for everyone it seems pretty obvious that society will be better off - people will spend their time working on things to improve everyone's life rather than worrying about how to afford their rent The incredulity of this is plainly galling. How does one draw a broad conclusion like that? Plenty of European examples abound where despite generous - some would argue very generous - state…

> Plenty of European examples abound where despite generous - some would argue very generous - state dispensed benefits certain sections of the society just do not respond positively in measures of improvement of their own station in life much less "working on things to improve everyone's else (lives)".

For many years people on English out of work benefits were not allowed to do voluntary work or be a student - those were things that would have stopped the benefits.

This carried over to some of the disability benefits. If you did voluntary work to prepare you to get back into full time work your benefits would be stopped.

Citing benefits street, and calling it a documentary, is an odd choice. Do you think that programme has any credibility?

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#56

Post by [deleted] »

naz wrote: post #49
wozniacki wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a government were to do that for everyone it seems pretty obvious that society will be better off - people will spend their time working on things to improve everyone's life rather than worrying about how to afford their rent The incredulity of this is plainly galling. How does one draw a broad conclusion like that? Plenty of European examples abound where despite generous - some would argue very generous - state…

You're woefully misinformed about exactly how generous benefits in the UK are. People who do manage to live off benefits here can't expect a quality of life that even begins to approach comfortable. You shouldn't let some opportunistic reality TV show be the basis for your world views.

[deleted]

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#57

Post by msvalkon »

anticon wrote: post #52
onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

People starting companies are driven, determined people who want to create things. The vast majority of people are not. You're vastly over-estimating the general population. The majority are lazy, and if given money, will sit watching reality TV and stuffing their face with ice cream. (Step outside the startup bubble for a while). Most people are also selfish. The idea that they'll all start doing things to benefit o…

It seems to me you are not entirely objective on this. The studies (also mentioned in this article) seem to contradict your view.

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#58

Post by Sir_Substance »

anticon wrote: post #52
onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

People starting companies are driven, determined people who want to create things. The vast majority of people are not. You're vastly over-estimating the general population. The majority are lazy, and if given money, will sit watching reality TV and stuffing their face with ice cream. (Step outside the startup bubble for a while). Most people are also selfish. The idea that they'll all start doing things to benefit o…

>The vast majority of people are not. You're vastly over-estimating the general population. The majority are lazy, and if given money, will sit watching reality TV and stuffing their face with ice cream.

I've always felt that this argument against basic minimum income said more about the arguer than society at large. In my experience, everyone has a personal project that gets sidelined for their work.

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#59

Post by jwr »

Any discussion of basic income should at least mention the excellent novel by Janusz Zajdel, "Limes Inferior" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_inferior). I think he very accurately portrays a system where everyone is guaranteed basic income (along with some other interesting and mostly terrifying concepts).

It is true (and sad, I think) that many people, given basic income, will do nothing to improve themselves or their surroundings. But I still think basic income is an idea worth pursuing.

Re: A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic income theory

#60

Post by halviti »

anticon wrote: post #52
onion2k wrote: post #33

One of the first pieces of advice I had when my company landed its investment was to pay ourselves a decent (not extravagant) wage so that my time went on worrying about the company rather than how I was going to afford to do things in my personal life. The same is true for employees - if they're paid a good living they will spend more time on thinking about problems in their job instead. If a government were to do t…

People starting companies are driven, determined people who want to create things. The vast majority of people are not. You're vastly over-estimating the general population. The majority are lazy, and if given money, will sit watching reality TV and stuffing their face with ice cream. (Step outside the startup bubble for a while). Most people are also selfish. The idea that they'll all start doing things to benefit o…

Translation: "Society at large has no value, it is up to the strong to take from the many and cull the weak."
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