Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Safari is the new IE

nolanlawson.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 368 posts

Re: Safari is the new IE

#141

Post by Touche »

binarymax wrote: post #65

Hey Nolan, It was good to "meet" you at edgeconf (really we were just throwing the mic back and forth, and I couldnt make it to the afterparty). I really enjoyed your panel intro and insight. I agree with your assessment that IndexedDB is laughably bad in Safari, but maybe they haven't bothered because its really not such a great solution in general? I'm going to reassert that I think we could do much better - since…

> I agree with your assessment that IndexedDB is laughably bad in Safari, but maybe they haven't bothered because its really not such a great solution in general?

So where's their alternative spec?

Re: Safari is the new IE

#142

Post by etchalon »

[deleted] wrote: post #114
coldtea wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which has been stated again and again, but was never an issue with Apple. First because what they make from the App Store is spare change for them. Second because they did have the best browser for a while, and did very much to advance the state of the art (from WebSQL, to Canvas, CSS 3D and other stuff, all originating there, along with the original fast-JITed JS engine who started the JS-race to what we have know).…

[deleted]

According to caniuse.com, it's not present in any Safari browser: http://caniuse.com/#feat=vibration

Re: Safari is the new IE

#143

Post by LoSboccacc »

criley2 wrote: post #131
exelius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but the problems Safari has on mobile aren't going to be fixed by implementing IndexedDB; and honestly the WebSQL vs IndexedDB argument is irrelevant to most people: 95% of web developers will just use a framework that abstracts the differences. And I wouldn't claim that mobile Chrome is a whole lot better on this front, even (or especially) on Android. The limitations of mobile CPUs combined with higher user…

Chrome on Android works great and experiences literally zero of the issues mentioned for Safari. Chrome for Android is an app, not a system component, and does not require Android point releases to be updated. It is frequently updated on a regular schedule by Google and pushed out to devices. Using sources like www.caniuse.com, I frequently find that Safari/iOS does not support a feature that is supported on Android…

this. and don't get me started with the whole mess that happens if you dare to use a css transform on a positioned element, which works kind of differently according to every browser already, but is completely different than every other on safari/ios

Re: Safari is the new IE

#144

Post by rescendent »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #103
Klathmon wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to be the first to implement standards, it's another to completely ignore them for years. The "Chrome Experiments" was a way to show off the WebGL capability in chrome that no other browsers had at the time. (Now those demos will mostly work in all browsers) Plus you are forgetting that those are experiments. They were never really meant to be actual "apps". Making an experiment/demo for one browser is…

WebRTC is not really new any more - a couple of years old (and existed in other forms long before), and still not widely adopted. In fact, not adopted in a single further browser in that time, and the original two are not compatible. I'm thinking, its almost time to consider WebRTC 'failure to achieve traction'?

New version is being worked on: https://www.w3.org/community/ortc/

Re: Safari is the new IE

#145

Post by JohnBooty »

ninkendo wrote: post #120
JohnBooty wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its in Apple's interest to not have Safari work well on older machines (since they want people to buy new machines) Then they're failing miserably, because as I (and others in this conversation) have attested to... Safari is noticeably faster than Firefox or Chrome on older Mac hardware. So I don't think your theory holds any water. Sorry. (Edit: My post was unclear. I and others feel that Safari, despite its other s…

I think he interpreted your post as being the opposite of what you meant it to say. You said the performance gap is more noticeable but you probably mean in favor of safari, although it could be interpreted either way.

I think you're right. I edited my post for clarity.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#146

Post by andrewvc »

philwelch wrote: post #116
Someone wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the re-ignition of the "browser wars" when Google launched Chrome, and Apple got serious with Safari by moving to WebKit" Moving to WebKit? Only if you count CyberDog, I guess. Safari was always WebKit based. Also, your phrasing could be read as if Chrome came before Safari, but Safari is from 2003 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_version_history ), Chrome from 2008 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrom…

Not only was Safari always WebKit based, WebKit is Apple's browser engine (forked from KHTML and open sourced) that Chrome used to use until they forked it.

And WebKit was actually forked from KHTML which was KDE's engine.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#147

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Klathmon wrote: post #135
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebRTC is not really new any more - a couple of years old (and existed in other forms long before), and still not widely adopted. In fact, not adopted in a single further browser in that time, and the original two are not compatible. I'm thinking, its almost time to consider WebRTC 'failure to achieve traction'?

I'm sure as hell not married to the idea of WebRTC, but i desperately want something like it. The ability to do peer-to-peer communication from the browser is an amazing tool. It allows the creation of client-side-only web apps which can easily send massive amounts of data to others. With WebRTC (or any other service like it) you can add video chat to a web app with very little work, and no real server side infrastru…

Mostly its an unprofessional wad of code written by some PhD's. It went through some hands and ended up at Google, who mercifully refactored it somewhat and renamed it.

I've been dealing with the code base for 5 years, and never liked it. Had to rewrite the APIs every time we got a new source version, to fit our model which isn't the 'conference call' model. I'd be glad to see something more app-agnostic that just dealt with negotiating P2P streams, without so many assumptions about what/why/when the streams are.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#148

Post by mateuszf »

gmfawcett wrote: post #140
josefresco wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built websites during that entire period. I saw the rise and fall of Netscape, the "dark ages" of browser development when Microsoft let IE rot - I witnessed the birth of Firefox and the re-ignition of the "browser wars" when Google launched Chrome, and Apple got serious with Safari by moving to WebKit. The author is right, the details aren't the same but the same attitude exists. The author is simply speaking up b…

Offtopic, but your first paragraph sounds like Roy Batty's final monologue in Blade Runner. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate! :)

Safari will pass like tears in the rain.

Re: Safari is the new IE

#149

Post by riquito »

philwelch wrote: post #116
Someone wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the re-ignition of the "browser wars" when Google launched Chrome, and Apple got serious with Safari by moving to WebKit" Moving to WebKit? Only if you count CyberDog, I guess. Safari was always WebKit based. Also, your phrasing could be read as if Chrome came before Safari, but Safari is from 2003 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_version_history ), Chrome from 2008 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrom…

Not only was Safari always WebKit based, WebKit is Apple's browser engine (forked from KHTML and open sourced) that Chrome used to use until they forked it.

And it's a fork of the KHTML engine used by the Konqueror web browser for the KDE project

Re: Safari is the new IE

#150

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rescendent wrote: post #144
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebRTC is not really new any more - a couple of years old (and existed in other forms long before), and still not widely adopted. In fact, not adopted in a single further browser in that time, and the original two are not compatible. I'm thinking, its almost time to consider WebRTC 'failure to achieve traction'?

New version is being worked on: https://www.w3.org/community/ortc/

Still another conference-call-specific take on p2p communications. Application assumptions are laced throughout the design. Which in my experience is the usual problem with open source IP - its tied up with so many assumptions as to be brittle.
Post reply on HN