These are old numbers. IIRC they're estimating 10bn gross this year, with 20-30% margins.
> These are old numbers. IIRC they're estimating 10bn gross this year, with 20-30% margins.
That's gross margin.
Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
21–30 of 137 posts
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#22This is really interesting. I believe this might be attribute to all the Uber promotions in Asia. I have heard from all my friends in India/China that Uber rides are actually free for around 10-15 rides. Also, they are giving tons of money to Drivers to promote Uber in India. An average Uber driver in Bangalore earns 110000 INR per month where as an entry level software engineer in GOOG/AMZN in India earns 80000 INR/…
I'm still surprised that Uber is entering such competitive markets. I mean, in much of the western world, they're using a mobile app to side step cab hailing laws and break long standing taxi oligopolies. Does anyone know what market flaws they're solving in India and Asia?
In China the taxi oligopolies are very strong and the taxis are notorious for poor service. In Beijing, they come with their doors locked and roll the windows down to ask you where you want to go, to see if they feel like going in that direction.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#23This is really interesting. I believe this might be attribute to all the Uber promotions in Asia. I have heard from all my friends in India/China that Uber rides are actually free for around 10-15 rides. Also, they are giving tons of money to Drivers to promote Uber in India. An average Uber driver in Bangalore earns 110000 INR per month where as an entry level software engineer in GOOG/AMZN in India earns 80000 INR/…
I'm still surprised that Uber is entering such competitive markets. I mean, in much of the western world, they're using a mobile app to side step cab hailing laws and break long standing taxi oligopolies. Does anyone know what market flaws they're solving in India and Asia?
Primarily two things:
1. Time/Convenience: India does not have a system like America where you can hail cabs, they are only booked via an agency. These bookings need to be made some hours in advance. A pre-Uber thing (which I'm sure is still common in non-metropolotian parts of india) was to book an appropriately sized cab a day before we have a flight or train to catch. With Uber, request an Uber XL and you're done.
2. Price: As expected, these agencies work out to be pretty expensive. Uber is almost 50% cheaper.
I personally use Uber when I'm with people or have luggage with me. Otherwise India does have a very good metro train and also has autorickshaws (aka tuk tuk) but the former is not point to point and the latter seats 3 people at best (and an Uber sometimes works out to be cheaper than a autorickshaw)
I think that currently only a small part of India uses Uber significantly, but those who do have nothing but praise (anecdotal). Uber has better quality and better drivers for a better price. That said, the market seems large enough to warrant competitors like Ola and Meru.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#24This just shows that there is not much margin in this industry. They are essentially buying market share. However, as soon as Uber try to squeeze out some profit, they'll be undercut by the competitors.
Competitors lowering their pricing is not going to magically cause an exodus of customers who are attached to using Uber. Price change would be gradual, if done correctly, imperceptible. Plus, those competitors are being squeezed right now, who knows if they will be around once Uber decides to raise pricing to move towards profit. As they say on Wall Street, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. No doubt this saying is apt for this present circumstance, especially since Wall Street is involved.
Uber is in the service industry, and winning in the service is not always on price.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm still surprised that Uber is entering such competitive markets. I mean, in much of the western world, they're using a mobile app to side step cab hailing laws and break long standing taxi oligopolies. Does anyone know what market flaws they're solving in India and Asia?
When I went to Delhi, I had to haggle with the tuk tuk driver. In some cities in China, there seemed to be the impression that some taxies were not trustworthy and some people only ride from particular taxi companies. Uber was not in China or India when I last visited, but they do solve the trust problem and I would take them when I visit again.
This is a often understated advantage which Uber brings - the ability to land anywhere in the world and, modulo internet connection, get a safe ride within minutes where you know you won't be overcharged or longhauled.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#26Tangential to OP: How does HN feel about the "evilness" of Uber? At my school the general feel is that Uber is pretty evil, notably for its attitudes towards its drivers as well as towards Lyft.
There's the issue where they are pushing the drivers into indentured servitude http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-and-its-shady-partners-are-...
And just because the cab regulations overshot in many places it does not mean no regulations is the answer. Also, while civil disobedience is laudable the same can't be said from a company. Problem is, what if next time a company finds another set of regulations / laws it doesn't like? This sort of behavior should be killed with fire because it weakens the very rule of law. I know this is not a popular opinion but the French arresting the leaders of Uber in France are going the right direction and more of the same is (badly) needed.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#27Tangential to OP: How does HN feel about the "evilness" of Uber? At my school the general feel is that Uber is pretty evil, notably for its attitudes towards its drivers as well as towards Lyft.
I didn't downvote you, but this should really be submitted as an AskHN.
You're right, I will attempt not to hijack threads in the future.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#28Tangential to OP: How does HN feel about the "evilness" of Uber? At my school the general feel is that Uber is pretty evil, notably for its attitudes towards its drivers as well as towards Lyft.
Uber is a net positive I believe. Irrespective of what others think of their practices the product is substantially superior to any alternatives I have pwrrsonally used.
Net positive in terms of utility perhaps, but I'm of the opinion that you can't weigh ethics on that scale
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#29This just shows that there is not much margin in this industry. They are essentially buying market share. However, as soon as Uber try to squeeze out some profit, they'll be undercut by the competitors.
It shows that they're fighting very hard to become the monopoly player because they know that the lock in from the network effects of the taxi market are worth way more than $500 million.
Re: Uber Bonds Term Sheet Reveals $470M in Operating Losses
#30This just shows that there is not much margin in this industry. They are essentially buying market share. However, as soon as Uber try to squeeze out some profit, they'll be undercut by the competitors.
Competitors lowering their pricing is not going to magically cause an exodus of customers who are attached to using Uber. Price change would be gradual, if done correctly, imperceptible. Plus, those competitors are being squeezed right now, who knows if they will be around once Uber decides to raise pricing to move towards profit. As they say on Wall Street, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay sol…
Customer attachement is still a largely unproven hypothesis. How many people in San Francisco have both Lyft and Uber? The cost, as a consumer, to use indifferently one or the other is null.
The really hard challenge for Uber is: not becoming a commodity. I have no doubt they can crush incumbent taxi companies. How Uber will avoid being swallowed by the competitive beast they created is another, and harder, challenge.