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The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

roadsandkingdoms.com

151–160 of 174 posts

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#151
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Disgusting and ignorant"? Because I don't share your religion? That's pretty narrow minded.

What??? Your religion claims that the universe is here just for mankind's benefit? You really believe that? This planet was here for millions of years before mankind came along, and hopefully will be here for millions afterwards.

There is nothing you can ever do to destroy the planet. Check your hubris. Most of what you like about the planet is its suitability for human life, which is to say, it isn't the planet you like, but your descendants.

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what do you expect? Multiculturalism and a strong sense of community don't really go together very well.

When bigots run the place and "community" more often than not stands for segregative christian values, they really don't.

[deleted]

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#153
post #121

It doesn't seem to have much to do with the eldery age, or even (physical) sickness. None of the people described have been at very old age, or terminally sick. This is just an illustration of how limited is society based on collectivism, obedience and hard work. It helped them out a great lot in the industrial age, and even then made many of them mentally broken, or outright sick, and completely stopped working in t…

> how limited is society based on collectivism, obedience and hard work. So you are implying a society based on independence, rebellion, and slacking would do better at treating its elderly? Whether a culture cares for its elders only has to do whether they care for their elders, and in Japan they do. Making any other association is racism. The fact is only because they care have they associated a dreadful term "lone…

In every culture or country, the elderly will have a higher chance to live alone than the population in general, simply because they spouses have died. I thought that was pretty logical, and unavoidable.

Again, the article in question did not tell much about the very old people. 60 year old man with a heart condition? In a country where life expectancy at birth for males is 81.13 years? He wasn't old at all, he could marry and live a happy life for another about 30 years, that's what life expectancy for males at 60 in Japan is. This is not about ageism, nor about treatment of the eldery. It is simply about how people are systematically depressed and feel lost, having worked for industrial super-machine their whole life - a machine which is now gone.

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Slavic countries, men have to struggle with the opposite: how to avoid marriage at all costs.

Please elaborate - this could get interesting.

I thought everyone is aware of that. Life of a Slavic man is sadly, similar to a life of an American black man [1], for the same reasons - poverty, low educational level, lack of opportunities, which causes crime and self-destructing behavior. Which results in that by the age of marriage, there is a shortage of men at least as bad as a shortage of black men in U.S. - except black women have a slim chance of getting into an interracial marriage - getting a European or other foreign guy for a Russian girl is more difficult.

Coupled with sexism meaning that women typically earn very little if anything, and their only chance to escape abject poverty is to get married, and because there are so many women for so few men and with nothing else to make the guy interested, pregnancy becomes the only option. To keep the guy married (especially given that divorce laws are very weak and not in general working in post-Soviet countries, and men lose little if they divorce), an extreme psychological pressure is required, which usually takes efforts of the whole girl's family. Except the very cynical guys, only chance to escape this is to keep as far from marriage as possible. This is probably why post-soviet population declines so fast.

Of course, the higher classes of society (e.g. coders) are exempt.

(the other side of this is domestic violence which is very common, and sometimes not even viewed as a problem, which is an even more sad side of the story)

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/20/upshot/missing...

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#155
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting married is easy. And plenty of people don't want it. :) You'd be hard pressed to find a person who doesn't want to be a billionaire. Try online dating, or go to a bar to meet a girl. It's a lot easier than you think, especially when you're gainfully employed.

This is a little bit like telling someone with a phobia of spiders to just stop being scared of spiders.

The OP never mentioned he was scared of dating. He may have given up trying.

There's advice in the post, BTW. Did you read it?

In any case, there are far more many spouses than there are billionaires in this world.

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#156
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The elderly provide an unbelievable amount of wisdom Sorry, no. It's not because you grow grey hair that you get gifted wisdom or anything. There's a bunch of older people who are actually assholes, too. Getting old does not make your into a Saint.

There's a great short story called "The Last Answer," by Isaac Asimov.[1] In it, a scientist dies and is preserved by a "god" to think for eternity. He is quickly horrified by this and declares that he won't do it. Murray said, “Consider, then, that my thoughts may be useless to you. If I come up with nothing useful, will it not be worth your while to – disassemble me and take no further trouble with me?” “As a rewar…

Thank you for the link to that, it was a fantastic little story - really got my brain started today!

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what do you expect? Multiculturalism and a strong sense of community don't really go together very well.

I really strongly disagree with the sentiment of this comment. I've been living and working in a very ethnically / culturally diverse non-profit charity organisation for several years now. We're a Christian charity, so there are strong religious ties across the board, but huge cultural differences. A sense of community is far more developed by the shared experiences together , rather than just the similarity of past…

Expanding a bit on what I mean by shared experience:

There's a huge difference between active and passive experience. Listening to a lecture is a passive experience. Asking questions is an active one. Watching TV is a passive experience. Playing a board game is an active one. The exact definitions can be a bit hazy, but the major concept should be fairly clear.

This is why in longer training courses / workshops run for a bunch of people from different communities, rather than from an already established one, there's often an 'icebreaker' game which is interactive and requires active participation, rather than just watching a funny cat video, or listening to a talk straight away. Even if the game is a little bit boring, or if you don't remember anyone's name, you have now all got at least one shared active experience, and a (slight) sense of community. If there's already a sense of community, then this is less needed, obviously. This sense of community is then useful for getting people to offer assistance to each other, be more likely to ask questions, make team discussions / activities later on much more interactive, and so on.

It's why there is a sense of community on slashdot, here, github, etc. and many many communities on reddit, youtube etc. but bbc, cnn, amazon, netflicks, etc. don't (much). Even if many many people watch BBC, or the same tv series on netflicks, and spend hours watching the same content as other people there, there's very little active participation. Often any active participation is lost amongst all the other noise, rather than becoming a shared active experience with other people. 30 people watch a glove and boots video, make their own responses, and watch each others videos, and maybe make responses to those responses. They will feel like a community. 300000 people watch it and 'like' it, and then go on to watch a video about kittens, and maybe like that too. They may enjoy their time, but won't feel like a community.

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what do you expect? Multiculturalism and a strong sense of community don't really go together very well.

When bigots run the place and "community" more often than not stands for segregative christian values, they really don't.

Trying not to feed the trolls, but:

Segregation and discrimination are far away from any of the teachings of Jesus. He partied and hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other social outcasts of the day. He was killed alongside thieves, and spoke to them without disparaging. He, as a Jew, travelled to the Samaritan towns (a people-group treated apartheid style by Israel back-then), stayed with them and treated them as equals. He spoke kindly to a woman caught in adultery that the community wanted to stone to death, and through his response to her, saved her life. He treated all sin (falling short of the intended perfect standard) as proving us all equally fallen.

His teaching boiled down to: All people are broken, and failed. No-one is better than anyone else, and any 'self-righteousness' you may think you have because of your religion, or background, race, whatever, is of no value in the end at all. But God still loves us, come back to him!

The Pharisees (essentially the fundamentalist evangelicals of the time) and other religious leaders slammed him for this, and it was because their power over the people being challenged by him that they ended up conspiring to murder him.

Please don't take the rude, abusive, hurtful, bigotted and unwelcoming attitudes of certain people who call themselves 'Christians' to actually be values originating in the teachings of Christ.

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#159
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society is bizarre in innumerable ways. The number of people who I know that have contempt for children or people having children is repugnant to me. I think the disdain for the young and old is a sign of decadence.

What kind of mental gymnastics are involved in portraying the people who aren't sinking $200K into a child as decadent?

I'd ask what mental gymnastics are involved for a rich country to ignore tens of thousands of elderly to die alone and abandoned until their bank accounts drain?

Re: The Lonely End: in aging Japan, thousands die alone and unnoticed

#160
post #136

If only there was something like World Of Warcraft that is suitable for the elderly. I'm not joking. I keep wondering if I should introduce my grandma to such a game, but I live far away and they all seem too complicated. Would be happy about suggestions.

Bridge, or chess, or mah-Jong, or any number of other games. Sudoku, different solitaire variations, crosswords...

Sure, but they might lack the social aspect of MMORPGs (guilds?)?

And what would be good sites for those games?

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