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Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

nytimes.com

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Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#151

Post by nate_meurer »

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

Polygamy is a Christian institution. It was pointedly prescribed in the old testament. Modern anti-polygamists will argue that the old testament prescription was a matter of necessity, and that new testament language (particularly Paul's) prescribes monogamy, but to my eyes the new testament's position is pretty casual, while the old testament's is quite strong.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#152

Post by tosseraccount »

sigzero wrote: post #90
tosseraccount wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically it wasn't.

As we see today, history isn't always right. Sex with minors should always been illegal.

Sex with 17 year old should be illegal?

Why, exactly?

What if the partner is 18?

What if the partner is 35?

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#153

Post by tptacek »

rfrey wrote: post #130
peteretep wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalia is like reading The Spectator. Well-argued, cogent, urbane, but wrong.

I think he's often right. But unlike tptacek, I just can't muster any admiration for this dissent. It seemed so petulant, and more grounded in sophistry than law.

I don't like the logic, at all. Just the writing.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#154

Post by _delirium »

masklinn wrote: post #113
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world. What fraction of the developed world had gay marriage, at what time, such that this statement makes sense? I mean, Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in, what, 2003?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#Timeline 2001 — Netherlands 2001 — Belgium 2005 — Spain, Canada 2006 — South Africa 2009 — Norway, Sweden 2010 — Portugal, Iceland, Argentina 2012 — Denmark 2013 — France, Brazil, Uruguay, New Zealand 2014 — England and Wales 2015 — Luxembourg, Ireland, United States of America 2017 — Finland (the law is voted and signed but not yet in effect) > I mean, Massachusetts le…

> not to mention commonly a complete loss of recognition and attendant rights on moving outside the sub-territory

That wasn't necessarily the case; a bunch of Full-Faith-and-Credit-Clause cases were also being litigated before this decision. Though it would probably have ended up as more of a complex mess.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#155

Post by Tiktaalik »

tosseraccount wrote: post #5

If love is about ignoring race,class,gender,age shouldn't it be about ignoring numbers, too? Polygamy is the next hurdle for society. The judges should declare all consenting marriage legal !

I doubt the USA keeps an eye on Canadian legal cases (though Commonwealth countries certainly do) but Canada's polygamy laws were tested by a high court very recently (2011). The existing laws were upheld.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-s-poly...

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#156

Post by drumdance »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #79
plg wrote: post #45

Can we finally stop calling it "gay marriage" and "traditional marriage" and just call it "marriage" now? good job USA I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world.

Yeah, you should start leading again by cross-species marriage too. It may sound bizarre now but that's how same sex marriage was a 100 years back. Marrying your pets should be legal too.

> Marrying your pets should be legal too

What benefits would marrying your pet bring? And why marry when you already own?

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#157

Post by baddox »

jscheel wrote: post #142

I've never really given credence to the people that suggested a ruling would be a slippery slope. However, after reading the opinion for myself, I can see how the court's stance on marriage (opposite-sex and same-sex) can now be extended to polygamy and incest. I understand the need to define it as a fundamental right within the context of this ruling, but it seems that some of the wording opens the way for other mar…

> However, after reading the opinion for myself, I can see how the court's stance on marriage (opposite-sex and same-sex) can now be extended to polygamy and incest.

Good. If only they (or society) would decide that no consenting people need permission from anyone else to call themselves "married."

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#158

Post by raldi »

mkr-hn wrote: post #17

For me and a lot of friends and family, marriage equality. Yay. "It is now clear that the challenged laws burden the liberty of same-sex couples, and it must be further acknowledged that they abridge central precepts of equality . . . Especially against a long history of disapproval of their relationships, this denial to same-sex couples of the right to marry works a grave and continuing harm. The imposition of this…

I think Kennedy knew this was going to be read by far more laypersons than a typical opinion, and wrote it accordingly. It reads like a FAQ, going through all the common objections and concerns one by one and addressing them in order.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#159

Post by venomsnake »

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

>Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question being resolved. I know several triples living quietly among us; they face the same kind of problems (child custody, hospital visitation, inheritance rights) as same-sex couples faced prior to this decision.

I made that argument to a couple of friends - that they were not fighting for equality (which will be fairly easy to set up) but for inclusion in the privileged club. They responded with "Well marriage is between couples, but defining the sex of the participants is discriminatory".

One of the problems with polygamy/andry is that we could hollow out the lower social classes of mating opportunities (it happens in india and china right now due to girl infanticide and it is not pretty).

Anyway - congratulations to the winners.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#160

Post by jedberg »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #22
tosseraccount wrote: post #5

If love is about ignoring race,class,gender,age shouldn't it be about ignoring numbers, too? Polygamy is the next hurdle for society. The judges should declare all consenting marriage legal !

>The judges should declare all consenting marriage legal ! If it is truly consenting, taking into account the modern defined limits on who can give consent, why not? A polygamous relationship is already legal in practice (adultery and extra-marital sex are not crimes). The paperwork and law changes aren't going to be simple, but besides for that I don't see a justification in continuing the ban.

> adultery and extra-marital sex are not crimes

It's still illegal in 21 states[0]. Those laws however are rarely enforced.

[0] http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheati...

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