Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 1001 posts

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#141

Post by ewzimm »

ebbv wrote: post #6
troycarlson wrote: post #3

Hopefully this whole "issue" will just go away soon...so many more important things that deserve the public's attention. Edit: To clarify, I support marriage equality and believe this is great news that deserves celebrating.

Spoken like a straight person who has never been denied the ability to do something straight people take for granted.

The hope expressed here, which I share, is that settling marriage equality can help move us to a world in which politics isn't dominated by a discussion of what or who people consent to do with their own bodies.

You don't need to be straight to think that there are deeper issues which which still exist that, if solved, could have made marriage equality something which was never controversial. For example, why should any government have any say over whose relationship is legitimate?

There's an old idea that the government exists to serve the governed and that any situation in which it intervenes should only be to protect them, not to dictate the terms of their religion or their private lives. And yet the US government is in a situation where it seems to often serve the interests of only those who can hire lobbyists. Protection is redefined as protecting the wealth of those few, and elected representatives focus their campaigns on the most divisive cultural and religious issues over which they have minimal influence to distract from what they actually do on a daily basis, which is mostly meeting with lobbyists.

Plenty of people will vote for one party solely based on their support or opposition to a single issue such as abortion or marriage equality, and while those are important issues, they have allowed politicians to get away with whatever else they have wanted to sneak into their agendas.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#142

Post by jscheel »

I've never really given credence to the people that suggested a ruling would be a slippery slope. However, after reading the opinion for myself, I can see how the court's stance on marriage (opposite-sex and same-sex) can now be extended to polygamy and incest. I understand the need to define it as a fundamental right within the context of this ruling, but it seems that some of the wording opens the way for other marriage relationships that are not explicitly defined in the court's opinion.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#143

Post by Bedon292 »

hackuser wrote: post #100
mkr-hn wrote: post #17

For me and a lot of friends and family, marriage equality. Yay. "It is now clear that the challenged laws burden the liberty of same-sex couples, and it must be further acknowledged that they abridge central precepts of equality . . . Especially against a long history of disapproval of their relationships, this denial to same-sex couples of the right to marry works a grave and continuing harm. The imposition of this…

> opinion also reasserted that people who are really mad about this can continue to be mad and vocal about it, as guaranteed by the First Amendment Was this a question? I don't think I've heard anyone ever say otherwise. I'll add though, that people long have cloaked oppression in religion. People justified (and still justify) slavery, segregation, and oppression of women under the guise of religion, for example. Som…

I think people may have a hard time separating the two. They feel that it is infringing upon their religion, and they associate that religion with the First Amendment which they use to express it.

I also think they are putting it in there as a covering themselves, preempting the argument from others.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#144

Post by ionforce »

hackuser wrote: post #123
ionforce wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame Glee. I say that a bit tongue-in-cheek but it definitely helps to have gay culture and gay icons just out there in the world, melded seamlessly with the rest of society. This includes things like trashy teen comedies and musicals and what not. Having equal marriage rights is just one more step in the right direction of having a more tolerant, loving earth society.

> it definitely helps to have gay culture and gay icons just out there in the world, melded seamlessly with the rest of society. On one hand I agree, but it's never been sufficient. There have been gay icons for a long time (probably forever); Oscar Wilde springs to mind, and Alan Turing (though I don't know if he was well-known to the public). And even with their status, they were still persecuted and ruined.

But it's another thing to be on Fox (the television channel) and on top of mind for young people. Gay is just an adjective to them, not this twisted idea with hateful baggage. Oh, she has red hair and he's gay. Moving on.

It's not really the gay icons as much as it is the gay banality. Having gay just exist in plain sight.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#145

Post by baddox »

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

> While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy.

Or indeed, on the fundamental issue, which is the need to get permission from a tiny group of powerful people in order to get married.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#146

Post by mkr-hn »

andor436 wrote: post #83
fweespeech wrote: post #12

Yeah, I'm still slightly pissed they basically waited until the majority was clear before they'd rule on the matter. Its another clear sign our Judiciary is really just as political as the politicians are, even if no one says so openly. > As late as October, the justices ducked the issue, refusing to hear appeals from rulings allowing same-sex marriage in five states. That decision delivered a tacit victory for gay r…

I don't know. They had to start by striking down the federal benefits part of DoMA, and then return the issue to the lower courts to build up sufficient decisions (and precedent.) It takes time to do this. Frankly I'm astonished (and proud) that public opinion has shifted so quickly.

It's all the people coming over the last 15 years. It's easier to hate an abstract notion of a person--all those gay stereotypes, plus what you hear in church--than someone you know and care about.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#147

Post by dublinben »

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

Polygamy is a deeply troublesome arrangement, with a storied history of abuse. It has been steadily abandoned and outlawed as societies grant more legal rights and self-determination to women.

There is simply no way to legally recognize poly* relationships under the law in a way that resembles binary marriage.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#149

Post by jrs235 »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #96

I'm a straight conservative (more fiscal than social, and sure as hell not Republican any more), and my reaction to this is: "meh". The writing has been on the wall for a while now, and anybody surprised by this hasn't been paying attention. Any social conservatives on HN -- that is to say, both of you -- should keep in mind that if you're worried about how this affects the sanctity of marriage, that institution has…

I guess we found each other. The things that irritate me the most is that people believe that marriage is a right. It is not. It is a government granted legal status privilege. The privilege grants those recognized as married numerous benefits. Now, with that said, I can't see why allowing any two consenting adults who wish to extend the government recognized benefits to each other should be infringed. One question though is, what benefit does the state/government gain from [recognizing] marriage? I think the quickest and easiest answer is that a) two people sharing and taking care of each other is beneficial [to society] and b) should a divorce occur, the state can get involved ensuring that a[n ex-]spouse is treated fairly and taken care of.

ADD: Also, people keep mixing love and marriage. While the two often go hand in hand that isn't always the case.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#150

Post by hackuser »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #96

I'm a straight conservative (more fiscal than social, and sure as hell not Republican any more), and my reaction to this is: "meh". The writing has been on the wall for a while now, and anybody surprised by this hasn't been paying attention. Any social conservatives on HN -- that is to say, both of you -- should keep in mind that if you're worried about how this affects the sanctity of marriage, that institution has…

> That's why my reaction is "meh": as a "problem", SSM isn't even on the radar.

I realize I'm approaching the question from a different angle than you are, but I want to point out that it was a very big problem for gay and lesbian Americans and their loved ones.

Post reply on HN