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What happens when you stop relying on resumes

blog.alinelerner.com

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Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#111
post #24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, regularly. Valley has a very short attention span. NG isn't in the list of hip sexy companies. Same goes with profiles from Cisco, VMWare, Intel, Synposys, IBM, and pretty much all the big companies that were pinnacles of business and your career at one point, but they are not considered hip anymore. Looking at Github profiles, however much people talk about it, also doesn't regularly happen. It's a chore to typ…

Don't overlook the East Coast firms. CSC, SAIC, Unisys, Booz | Allen | Hamilton, Mitre, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, and smaller companies are developing very sophisticated software, especially in data science (my field), and not just for the government. A lot of these positions are highly competitive and involve a great deal of skill and education. Around here, they're still seen as major resume builders. Anec…

> Don't overlook the East Coast firms. [...] Unisys

From all the H1-B stuff I had gotten the impression they were more of an overseas firm.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#112
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they're right -- I, too, have observed a disconnect between how polished people sound when they talk about their work and what happens when they actually have to write code. I've done a lot of work that people would probably find very interesting and useful. But I tend to choke on whiteboard code interviews because they're so high stakes. Any time spent thinking about the problem looks bad, so you have to t…

I think what you describe is a real problem and unfortunately one that getting data around is really tough, for the reasons you describe. For what it's worth, when I observed a disconnect between how well people spoke about their projects and how well they coded, it was generally a situation where someone had perfected a pretty polished self-pitch rather than a situation where I drilled down deeply into what they had…

> we're getting a lot of comparative interview data, i.e. where the same person gets interviewed a bunch of different ways. Excited to see if we can draw some good conclusions about what works and what doesn't.

So I think that only works if you hire everyone, whether they interview well or not. Or else the process is biasing the results and it's not representative anymore.

If you really wanted to get better information you'd have to go interview people who are already employees at a particular company and have outsiders (people who don't already know them) conduct the interviews. Then when you're done you can compare the simulated hire/no hire results and the interviewers recorded confidence numbers in their evaluation against the performance evaluations of the interviewed employees.

So long as the outsiders conduct many different types of interviews (especially besides what the company normally does) you might get a clearer view into what kind of interviewing works well and what doesn't.

I know some people that applied to and got hired by Google. Google seems painfully aware of how uncorrelated their interviewing process is with their hiring results. The hoops that these guys jumped through I never would. So even if I was talented enough to work at Google (I won't speculate here) they'll never actually be able to hire me unless they actively recruit me and don't make me run the gauntlet.

The whole problem is a really tough nut to crack. I suspect that all the pipelines are going to be biased one way or another. If I were in charge of hiring, I'd want to try and use several of them so as to not miss out on good candidates who are undervalued for whatever reason.

There's a lot of talent out there, despite everyone thinking that there's a talent shortage. The error actually lies in trying to have a one-size-fits-all solution to a problem that's definitely not uniform. Companies are failing to adapt to the human-ness of their "human resources" and it's costing them.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#113
post #88

You can do much more easier, automated filtering: Ask candidate to submit link to any of the followings: 1. Github a/c 2. StackOverflow a/c 3. Their blog 4. Anything they made online If candidate fails to submit link for any of above then just don't interview them. I would guesstimate this simple check filters out 70% of the junk resume and probably 20% of the good resumes. It can scale like crazy and expanded even m…

* 20+ years of development experience 15 of those professionally * published author of various books * worked in systems that most startups would shit their pants with the requirements * some of the big name companies have tried to poach me based on the products I've worked * used professionally: C, C++, F#, C#, Ruby(Rails), Swift, Obj-C, Kotlin, Haskell, Scala I would never be called based on that criteria as I have…

Well he did say that it would reject a fairly high amount of good candidates, but, given your attitude, I'd say it would get this one right.

Not sure why you've latched onto GitHub, he said it could be any one of the four. The principle is obviously just about demonstrating work that you've actually done. I'm pretty sure that's reasonable and not cause to go off on hipsters. Yes, there would be some qualified candidates that would not be able to show those things for various reasons, and that is probably the reason for the high estimate of false negatives, but presumably the decision-makers would be permitted to use common sense to make exceptions.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#114
post #88

You can do much more easier, automated filtering: Ask candidate to submit link to any of the followings: 1. Github a/c 2. StackOverflow a/c 3. Their blog 4. Anything they made online If candidate fails to submit link for any of above then just don't interview them. I would guesstimate this simple check filters out 70% of the junk resume and probably 20% of the good resumes. It can scale like crazy and expanded even m…

* 20+ years of development experience 15 of those professionally * published author of various books * worked in systems that most startups would shit their pants with the requirements * some of the big name companies have tried to poach me based on the products I've worked * used professionally: C, C++, F#, C#, Ruby(Rails), Swift, Obj-C, Kotlin, Haskell, Scala I would never be called based on that criteria as I have…

true that, no one has time to sit there all day and answer questions on StackOverflow to get a top rating. The checklist is a best way to weed out so many great developers.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#115

I just went through a job search, and never created a resume. I only submitted my linkedin. If anyone required a resume, I immediately responded that we weren't a good culture fit. Worked out really well. Not sure it's to be duplicated, but for me it went fantastically.

LinkedIn is basically an overblown resume, so that doesn't really make a different, try without LinkedIn and resume and see how many people bothering to contact you back.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This reminds me of various captcha strategies I've seen used by small forums to great effect—solving some math, typing a word into a text box, choosing a popular character's picture… etc. They all work, perfectly. But only because spammers don't care about the small fry: it's not worth their time to modify their bots for your little site. If any given captcha becomes used widely—or your forum grows big enough—they…

I don't even go that far, I usually just add a field hidden with CSS that rejects the form if there's anything in it. Works perfectly.

Yeah, the image is still user-hostile and generally unnecessary.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#118

I screened and interviewed a lot of developers in my last position and it stood out to me that résumé quality seemed to be inversely correlated with the candidate's actual ability. I distinctly remember the absolute best developers that I hired also had the most atrociously bad résumés. The candidates with résumés that literally almost knocked me off my chair failed miserably at the most basic programming task.

Hypothesis: good candidates with good resumes get hired by Google, everyone else only can interview the bad candidates with good resumes or other candidates with bad resumes. Therefore selecting for good resumes reduces your chance of finding someone good, unless you're the best employer out there.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#119
This is very bad news. I have always highly valued resumes as a very effective candidate filter. It works as follows: I take the pile of resumes, shuffle them thoroughly an divide roughly in half. The pile to the left goes in the bin. I repeat this process until I have the luckiest candidate's resume in my hand. This is the type of guy I want to associate with: one on whom fortune smiles, repeatedly.

Re: What happens when you stop relying on resumes

#120
> His GitHub, full of projects spanning everything from a Python SHA-1 implementation to a tongue-in-cheek “What should I call my bro?” bromanteau generator, hinted at a different story, but most people never got there. While AJ’s government work experience gave him a good amount of cred in the public sector, he found that making the move to industry, and startups especially, was near impossible.

Huh? The companies this woman hires for don't look at github? Not looking at public code that someone has published is more broken than relying on resumes. If someone has published code and it doesn't suck, I'll probably bring them in for an on-site, period. I may even tell them that "We're going to talk about "file foo.c in your code where you implemented feature Z. So be prepared."

And, I suspect with startups it was more a case of "How many years were you in government? That would makes us so unhappy that we would leave. Why didn't you?" That's a different way of asking "Is this really the place for you?"

As a hiring manager in a startup, when I knew I only had 9 months of runway without more funding, I'd feel REALLY bad about taking someone with a family away from their very stable job. As someone who has recruited employee single digit, I often have made a point to meet the family when recruiting someone--even if I have to fly to them. I need both the prospective employee and their partner to understand that the big probability is that the company won't be around in 24 months, there won't be any payoff, and a new employment search is likely to be the result. Yeah, there is a small probability that we'll survive and an even smaller probability that we'll get some money. It's a really delicate balance for me, at least, to properly sell the company (Startup! Options! Novel!) and reality (Bankrupt! Flameout! Layoffs!).

I'd say I'm batting about 50%. For every employee I scare off, I absolutely convince one to join. Funnily enough, every single one who didn't run away said the same thing: "My wife told me I had to work with you." They were stunned that someone so important (Hah! Management in a startup is a good way to understand how unimportant you are really quickly ...) would take the time to make sure the family was informed properly about the risks and rewards.

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