I take the term competitive as you will compete with the surrounding market for my particular skillset and what I bring to the table. Salary bands lead me to believe that you want to fit me into a box regardless of what I can do. For example, 115-125k for a job description asking for senior responsibilities means top talent at your org is at 125k. I would be naieve to think your internal employees never read your posted openings. So to save everyone feelings and make things "fair" you post a range. If you are looking for the best you should be willing to "bid to play" and post it as such.
Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
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Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#22"Competitive" really means "market"
"Market" means "below market"
Thus "competitive" means "below market" :-)
Here are some reason's not to list salary:
(a) You're afraid of scaring off good people before they even hear your pitch.
(b) You aren't paying the rest of your team at true market and if they saw the ad they might ask for raises or get pissed and leave.
(c) You don't want to attract people who are in it for the money. (But it's OK for the company owners to be revenue driven of course.)
(d) You want to hire an "A" player who is more expensive than the "B" players you have and you don't want to explain it to your "B" players.
As they grow, companies tend to optimize for mediocrity - "We can't pay $X for someone really valuable because it would upset the (good but) less valuable team members."
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#23I take the term competitive as you will compete with the surrounding market for my particular skillset and what I bring to the table. Salary bands lead me to believe that you want to fit me into a box regardless of what I can do. For example, 115-125k for a job description asking for senior responsibilities means top talent at your org is at 125k. I would be naieve to think your internal employees never read your pos…
Great point re: salary bands, and existing employees reading listed job openings.
Each side of the bands/'competitive' debate has +/-s for sure. By 'bid to play' do you mean a 'race to the bottom' sort of thing re: salary/compensation?
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#24I don't know that this survey really demonstrates anything interesting, but humans typically reciprocate demonstrations of trust, suggesting that greater transparency in hiring would create a virtuous cycle.
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#25"Competitive" really means "market" "Market" means "below market" Thus "competitive" means "below market" :-) Here are some reason's not to list salary: (a) You're afraid of scaring off good people before they even hear your pitch. (b) You aren't paying the rest of your team at true market and if they saw the ad they might ask for raises or get pissed and leave. (c) You don't want to attract people who are in it for…
a-d are all valid points, and (c) is certainly one crux when it comes to listing a higher-paying jobs - is listing 'competitive' the only way of combatting this (what about the application process finding the most compatible skill-wise, person-firm fit-wise, etc)?
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#26I don't know that this survey really demonstrates anything interesting, but humans typically reciprocate demonstrations of trust, suggesting that greater transparency in hiring would create a virtuous cycle.
It is admittedly not a totally methodical study, but the discussion is sort of compelling.
Human nature would suggest as much (we'd certainly hope for reciprocations of actions that demonstrate trust in the everyday at least). But as others have mentioned - there are drawbacks to being transparent, even with the potential benefits from the created virtuous circle.
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#27not me. What i care about is where the office is located, whether there is anything to do in the area around the office, what technologies i will work with and whether i regard the company as ethical. I once worked for a former white panther at half the salary i could have commanded anywhere ele.
Your rationale is certainly a strong one - salary is but only one consideration in the end. What was your experience with the former white panther like?
he ran the company into the ground but we all had a great time while he did so.
that was the best place i ever worked. the problem was that dave really didnt want to be in the software industry anymore.
nowadays, jimmy carter reads his political blog.
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your rationale is certainly a strong one - salary is but only one consideration in the end. What was your experience with the former white panther like?
he ran the company into the ground but we all had a great time while he did so. that was the best place i ever worked. the problem was that dave really didnt want to be in the software industry anymore. nowadays, jimmy carter reads his political blog.
Enjoying it at the end of the day is the key thing, on a personal level and as a team. Shame it ended, but seems an understandable reason.
Now, having an ex-POTUS reading their is one helluva bragging right for him!
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
'Decent' is brilliant haha! :) Not seen that one yet. Your modus operandi, and note of caution are also spot on IMO. Transparency (not just on salary, but role/skill expectations too) would appear to build trust. What can firms that can't offer as much do, do you think?
Heh, "Decent" is more likely to make me apply than "Competitive" because it shows that they know what good developers cost and are acknowledging they're not paying top rate.
I don't think "decent" is any more meaningful than "competitive". Based on my experience, "competitive" has proven to be sometimes way below market value, I don't see why "decent" would be any different.
Some companies have no clue what "competitive"/"decent" really is, some do but are just trying to find someone to milk for cheap.
Re: Are techies really 57% more likely to apply for a job if they know the salary?
#30Defining your salary as "competitive" is worthless since everyone does it (although I saw a job description with "salary: decent" once :) ). Clearly, being open about the salary gives you a big advantage, applicants know what they can expect and are more willing to spend time going through your interview process. When dealing with recruiters, I only answer their cold email if the salary is listed (among location, com…
'Decent' is brilliant haha! :) Not seen that one yet. Your modus operandi, and note of caution are also spot on IMO. Transparency (not just on salary, but role/skill expectations too) would appear to build trust. What can firms that can't offer as much do, do you think?
If you publish a job description and already know that your budget won't let you match market value I would just not mention salary at all in the ad.
Stating "competitive" while you know very well you're not is harmful in 2 ways: - candidates who know the market will be very disappointed after taking the time to interview, most likely resentful and they will spread the word - if someone actually accepts the low ball offer presented as "competitive" it means that they have no clue what the market is and you probably don't want to hire them.
You can be very upfront about it though, "salary below market value but most of our compensation package is composed of options/equity".