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A world without work

theatlantic.com

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Re: A world without work

#141

Post by gluggymug »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #138
gluggymug wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I phrased it poorly. Is current work really that dull? I prefer to change the term being "slave to wage" to "I worked for a living". But everyone has different circumstances financially. If you are truly stuck in a miserable position then moving to another job is fine by my philosophy. The future of "no need to work" for everyone sounds pretty awesome. I hope it happens. I am actually living that way now. Aft…

"Perhaps I phrased it poorly. Is current work really that dull?" I'm sure I could've given it a more generous reading, my apologies. Is current work really that dull? Certainly not for everybody. However, if it's best to switch off your emotional capacity to get through it then yes, perhaps the work is dull. "The future of "no need to work" for everyone sounds pretty awesome. I hope it happens. I am actually living t…

No commuting in traffic! (That's a joke for the Sydney-siders on HN)

I essentially see myself as an early retiree so I live like a retired person. My parents became a bit of a template.

The 8 or so hours of the day that I had to work are now gone. I just replaced it with more of what I did in my leisure time. My life wasn't bad while I had the job so the only drastic change was to not go to work!

Re: A world without work

#142

Post by rayiner »

icanhackit wrote: post #137
rayiner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is a great way to give yourself some perspective and curb existential angst.

Having kids is a great way to give yourself some perspective and curb existential angst. This is going to be a touchy subject as people have children for many different reasons - I'll describe a few significant groups: - Those who do it to pass on knowledge, teach kids to be inquisitive and enjoy making/learning. This kind of parent themselves love learning, and raising a child is a massive part of their life journey…

I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her.

You're right that there are many different reasons people love their kids. But your overly intellectuallized and snobbish categorization misses the main reasons. Most people aren't on a journey of learning, and probably don't even like learning very much. But even dumb uninquisitive people can derive great joy from raising families. It's the ultimate equalizer.

Indeed, throughout history and still today in at least Asia, much of the Americas, and the U.S., most people get married and have kids because of reason 2. I assure you they make perfectly fine parents and most derive tremendous joy from parenthood.

Re: A world without work

#143

Post by eli_gottlieb »

EleventhSun wrote: post #134
rayiner wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, do we really understand this existential angst at its root? Children are a great reminder that understanding existence is irrelevant. Children don't contemplate their own existence, they simply experience and relish that existence. You can't be sure that you have any sort of purpose or destiny, but you can be sure of the ground beneath your feet and the sand between your toes. Children get that intuitively…

Speak for yourself, buddy. I contemplated my existence all the time, as a child.

When I was seven, I knew that the meaning of life was to have fun.

When I was a teenager and an early twentysomething, I thought the point in life was something one figured out via philosophy and religion.

When I was 24 or so, I realized I'd understood better at seven than at 15.

Re: A world without work

#144

Post by eli_gottlieb »

rayiner wrote: post #142
icanhackit wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is a great way to give yourself some perspective and curb existential angst. This is going to be a touchy subject as people have children for many different reasons - I'll describe a few significant groups: - Those who do it to pass on knowledge, teach kids to be inquisitive and enjoy making/learning. This kind of parent themselves love learning, and raising a child is a massive part of their life journey…

I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her. You're right that there are many different reasons people love their kids. But your overly intellectuallized and snobbish categorization misses the main reasons. Most people aren't on a…

> I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her.

Yes, but that's more-or-less the same reason you feel anyway about anything.

Re: A world without work

#145

Post by icanhackit »

abandonliberty wrote: post #126
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As work becomes more and more abstract, probably fewer and fewer people will find satisfaction in it. Some will, but the majority will not. We're just not built for doing this sort of thing for extended periods of time. We've evolved operating in the real, physical world, and our reward mechanisms are fine tuned for it.

Our reward mechanisms are not tuned finely enough to prevent video games and porn from hijacking them :)

Our reward mechanisms are not tuned finely enough to prevent video games and porn from hijacking them

They're not hijacking the reward center so much as they've found that people like sex and winning (you could argue they're intertwined or one and the same). They are our primary motivators.

The problem is that what we call "work" these days is so abstract that we never actually complete a task and thus never get that juicy hit of AH, job well done. Nailed it! It's just Well there's more of that shit on its way... There's no winning - it's a race that drags on until you retire or die.

Re: A world without work

#146

Post by qu4z-2 »

daodedickinson wrote: post #75
methodover wrote: post #55

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

Stop blaming work, which for thousands of years has been endurable and honorable for humans. Study philosophy seriously, and avoid philosophical paths that manifestly cause depression.

Work may have been around for thousands of years in one form or another, but I don't think it'd be unfair to say the nature of work has changed with the industrial revolution.

Further, just because something's been "endurable" for thousands of years doesn't necessarily make it good, or invalidate attempts to change it. And "honorable" is all about cultural values.

Re: A world without work

#147

Post by prawn »

createuniverses wrote: post #105
washedup wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key to a happy and successful life is to find meaningful ways to spend your time. Meaningful to you, of course. Because of the monetary system we live in, usually a large chunk of our time needs to be devoted towards earning money, or at least finding a way to eat, live comfortably, and reproduce (too scientific sounding?). Buddhist monks will be able to show you other ways to enjoy life outside that system, howe…

Why "reproduce"? Don't produce the next generation of slaves. On balance, life is misery. Leave the unborn in peace.

Because it's more rewarding than what almost any of us do at work. And in some ways raising a child with your values is a vote for the future direction of the world.

(Father of two very young children.)

Re: A world without work

#148

Post by qu4z-2 »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #123
EliRivers wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For thousands of years, work was something the peasants and the poor people did. An excellent trick pulled recently was to convince many of them that there was such a thing as a "work ethic" and that it was good and right and honourable.

It is good and right and honorable to not be a strain on others if you are capable of doing the work. Just because some people have taken advantage of that to get others to work for them doesn't mean work or work ethic in and of itself is bad.

The level of work required to "not be a strain on others" is far less than the level of work expected these days, I believe.

Re: A world without work

#149

Post by icanhackit »

rayiner wrote: post #142
icanhackit wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is a great way to give yourself some perspective and curb existential angst. This is going to be a touchy subject as people have children for many different reasons - I'll describe a few significant groups: - Those who do it to pass on knowledge, teach kids to be inquisitive and enjoy making/learning. This kind of parent themselves love learning, and raising a child is a massive part of their life journey…

I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her. You're right that there are many different reasons people love their kids. But your overly intellectuallized and snobbish categorization misses the main reasons. Most people aren't on a…

I don't love my daughter because [...]

My first sentence professed that "This is going to be a touchy subject as people have children for many different reasons" - I don't pretend to know why anyone here had kids.

But your overly intellectuallized and snobbish categorization misses the main reasons.

Here's some big ones I missed: working the farm and supporting the parents or for dowry. Entirely valid reasons to have kids depending on circumstance.

My point was that kids shouldn't be sold as a solution to existential problems. My best friend did just that and his relationship with his partner has disintegrated because it wasn't a realistic way of dealing with the issues that he has. He'll make a good dad and partner when he figures out what's burning inside him.

Re: A world without work

#150

Post by rayiner »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #144
rayiner wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her. You're right that there are many different reasons people love their kids. But your overly intellectuallized and snobbish categorization misses the main reasons. Most people aren't on a…

> I don't love my daughter because I'm sharing some lifelong journey of learning, whatever that means. I love her because my brain is wired to do so, to flood my blood stream with neurotransmitters that and hormones in response to her. Yes, but that's more-or-less the same reason you feel anyway about anything.

The difference is the amount of cognition involved in the process of eliciting that reaction. When my daughter was little I'd feed her a bottle and snuggle her to sleep. My wife noted that when I did that I looked stoned.
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