Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us • Hacker News Board

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#31

Post by natrius » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:59 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #26

donaldmcintyre wrote: post #25

Ethereum components are: - cryptocurrency - blockchain - consensus mechanism - miners - virtual machine - programmability - browser client As an open source project it leaves it open to developers, entrepreneurs and organizations to use it and create the applications they wish. All external political and social dramatization is personal opinion and judgement.

One thing which I think could hold projects like this back a little is the cryptocurrency component. I haven't delved into developing with Ethereum yet... would it be possible to use the non-cryptocurrency components with a FIAT payment system such as Stripe or Paypal?

Sure. Think of Ethereum as a global computer that coordinates human interactions. On top of it, you encode the rules that those interactions should follow, and a mechanism for recording who has been following the rules and who hasn't.

A decentralized Uber would have logic that records how often drivers show up when they offer a ride, how often they're late, how clean their cars are, etc. It would have similar logic for riders to handle their end of the interaction like the one you pointed out: did they pay what was agreed on?

The payment mechanism is irrelevant. Driver and rider satisfaction is what matters, and that's easy to track without putting any limits on their real world interactions.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#32

Post by dang » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:14 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #5

I find the title to be somewhat misleading as it tries to get readers' attention. Most of the article is related to the Blockhain, but "won't need us" makes most assume it's purely related to automation.

What would be a better title?

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#33

Post by mike_hearn » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:15 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #26

donaldmcintyre wrote: post #25

Ethereum components are: - cryptocurrency - blockchain - consensus mechanism - miners - virtual machine - programmability - browser client As an open source project it leaves it open to developers, entrepreneurs and organizations to use it and create the applications they wish. All external political and social dramatization is personal opinion and judgement.

One thing which I think could hold projects like this back a little is the cryptocurrency component. I haven't delved into developing with Ethereum yet... would it be possible to use the non-cryptocurrency components with a FIAT payment system such as Stripe or Paypal?

Banks don't normally give bank accounts to robots.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#34

Post by PaulHoule » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

There is probably already some "thing" out there running in the AWS cloud that both cashes checks and pays it's bills and is still running after the demise of its owner.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#35

Post by alttab » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:41 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #11

Gravityloss wrote: post #3

At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Not entirely joking. Since companies are legal entities and can be run by algorithms, then it's possible that such non-human companies end up with all the capital and all the power. Of course nations and legal systems will also be automatized, with maximum growth as the objective. Then the algorithms can just starve people to death i…

Why does trade require growth?

Symbiotic. Growth requires trade as well.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#36

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:42 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #33

rorykoehler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing which I think could hold projects like this back a little is the cryptocurrency component. I haven't delved into developing with Ethereum yet... would it be possible to use the non-cryptocurrency components with a FIAT payment system such as Stripe or Paypal?

Banks don't normally give bank accounts to robots.

They do to companies though.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#37

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 6:43 PM UTC

ep103 wrote: post #23

Gravityloss wrote: post #3

At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Not entirely joking. Since companies are legal entities and can be run by algorithms, then it's possible that such non-human companies end up with all the capital and all the power. Of course nations and legal systems will also be automatized, with maximum growth as the objective. Then the algorithms can just starve people to death i…

Iain M Bank's culture novels are predicated on this, as an aside.

[deleted]

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#38

Post by Animats » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 7:16 PM UTC

They're not talking about automated companies. They're talking about distributed companies. That's entirely different. This is the micropayment dream, again - everything is making tiny micropayments to everything else. I knew some of that crowd back when Xanadu was a thing. (Xanadu was Ted Nelson's thing, a predecessor of the World Wide Web. Everything is pay per view in Xanadu.) They were all fanatical libertarians.

Somebody read "Atlas Shrugged" too many times. (Part 3 of the movie is out, and in Redbox, if anybody cares. "The weak cinematic trilogy derived from Ayn Rand's 1957 screed-cum-novel limps to its merciful end." - Variety)

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#39

Post by fwn » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 8:17 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #11

Gravityloss wrote: post #3

At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Not entirely joking. Since companies are legal entities and can be run by algorithms, then it's possible that such non-human companies end up with all the capital and all the power. Of course nations and legal systems will also be automatized, with maximum growth as the objective. Then the algorithms can just starve people to death i…

Why does trade require growth?

It doesn't. But trade requires calm politicans. Those aren't calm if people aren't calm. And people aren't calm the moment TVs don't get bigger anymore. That's what makes them angry.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#40

Post by phaemon » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 8:40 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #30

phaemon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you don't. The report makes clear that you need wealth of USD 3,650 to be in the top 50% in the world, and USD 77,000 to be in the top 10%. https://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/?fi...

You are missing the point. Let me make a mathematical example. Suppose the population distribution is $[-100000 (1M people), 100000 (1M people), 200000 (1 person)]. Then anyone with $1 in net assets has more wealth than the bottom 2/3. In particular, the top person also has more wealth than the bottom 2/3. All this fact says is that a bunch of assets minus a bunch of debts adds up to small numbers. (Also note that I…

Your point appears to be that if enough people have debt, you don't need to have much to be above them. In short, you're trying to argue that there aren't many actual poor people and that there aren't a small number of super rich people (as the report suggests). Your point is wrong.

Most people are not in debt, as illustrated by the fact that you require USD 3,650 to have more wealth than 50% of people. If most people were in debt then USD 1 would be more than required.

Your figure of USD 150 is ludicrously inaccurate. That's nowhere near half the world. That's my point.