Earlier quoted context omitted.
With most biological systems, it's a pretty safe bet that things are more complicated than that.
With the limited ways we're able to study brain disorders at the moment, it feels to me like we're trying to debug an user level application by looking at the signals that pass through the system bus.
Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
41–50 of 109 posts
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#42Hmmm.. having been on an SSRI (at the time I was depressed) and suffering from a mild to middling social anxiety disorder (which stems from a chronic childhood one which lessened as I reached my mid 20's), for me SSRI's made me feel indestructible and fearless. But they also made me feel like I had no emotions at all and removed sexual desire and affected pleasure, so I stopped taking them and instead dealt with the…
> I still get bouts, but I have a mechanism in place to handle the symptoms and they mostly dissipate. Can you tell me about the mechanism that helps you?
Perceive -> accept -> insight. This is in the context of a reaction to a stimulus.
1. Perceive the feeling and its reaction. First step is actually recognizing that I feel something and that I have a reaction to it. When something makes me anxious, I have a deeply uncomfortable physical reaction that starts in my diaphragm and radiates outwards. It's a cold, empty, hollow feeling tinged with fear. Before I started being aware of my reactions, I'd feel something and it might only be "bad" or "good." Focusing specifically on the reaction has allowed me to identify physical responses to feelings, which has helped me identify the feeling. This was a long and hard (but fulfilling) process for me which by its nature was very fraught - to practice this, I had to feel negative emotions. But with deliberate practice, and deliberate probing, I started to identify patterns and was able to 'map' reactions to the stimuli that produced them.
2. Accept the reaction. I used to spend a lot of energy avoiding the "bad" and increasing the good. An obvious lack of confidence in my own ability to deal with emotions. It's not possible to avoid "bad" emotions; you're going to feel them. Much better to learn how to accept them so they don't kill your entire day. I like the analogy of living in a city where it rains: It's going to rain whether I want it to or not. I can spend all my time indoors not getting wet and also not experiencing anything. I can try to be a badass and walk around without an umbrella and get soaked; now I don't ever have to check the weather and I don't need to invest in rain gear, but whether I get soaked or not is completely at the mercy of some other force. The ideal way is to accept the rain, put on a raincoat, and go about my day. In this case, the rain coat is the ability to accept a reaction to a stimulus, accept that it might have been negative, then let it pass.
3. Insight. For me, this is all about why I felt a certain way, what underlying values were being stressed for me that caused me to react. It's also about preparing myself to feel those emotions again, and trying to react better the next time. I do a lot of visualizing and projecting here. I try to think of someone, be it a real person or a character, who reacts the way I'd like to react. I imagine the stimulus that upset me, then try to picture myself reacting like they would.
I hope this is helpful. It's a high level, general way to change your behavior. I've done a lot of work with therapists and life coaches to suss this out. If you're on the fence at all about getting help, do it. Easily one of the best decisions I've ever made. At the very least, a book called the Power of Habit by Charles Duhig (kind of pop-sciency, but insightful) might be worth reading.
Also, as other people have suggested: Exercise, but the one most people forget: Sleep. When I start prioritizing 7 - 7.5 hours a night (can't really sleep longer) my mood drastically improves. Getting a good night's sleep is probably the biggest bang for your buck, by a long long margin in the mental health department. If you are getting sleep, exercise is next. When I lift weights 3x a week, I have more energy, I sleep better, my mental reflexes are sharp (I don't feel foggy or hazy).
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#43Fool me once...
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#44Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#45social phobia = psychiatric disorder, in case i can't speak in public? do i have to speak in public? i'd be very careful with that kind of judgement. in general, having experience with how "modern medicine" and society in general handle such proclaimed "problems", psychology is a great deal of bullshit. i myself don't like masses of people. i embrace this preference. and i love it. most amassment of people aren't eve…
Nervousness is different than boredom, lack of desire, or lack of seeking it out. I can cover those bases quite well. I often don't want to socialize. But I'm not fearful of it, I just find it boring in most groups.
On the other hand, "public speaking", as in, getting up in front of a crowd and making any sort of speech, well, I've heard multiple people who make a living doing it that they never actually stop being nervous about it before hand. They learn how to get through it, but they're always nervous. Heck, I daresay such nerves are rational, really. That would seem to be a different category of issue.
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can use excitement as a broad category that includes good and bad, but there are definitely different hormonal mixes, some that are pleasant and some that are painful, and the difference is not perception.
I agree and I am certain that everyone's experiences vary. For instance some people enjoy things they consider frightening - others hate it. My suggestion is that there is not a direct causal link between a higher or lower level of seratonin and a mental state called anxiety. The same bodily state can enjoin one to flight or fight. Attitude, history, personality, self-belief and training can alter ones attitude to th…
I don't understand how that bears any relation to whether anxiety and positive-excitement are the same thing.
Also, when I'm excited in a happy way, I don't feel the compounding negative effects of stress hormones. You think that's all perception?
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#47Hmmm.. having been on an SSRI (at the time I was depressed) and suffering from a mild to middling social anxiety disorder (which stems from a chronic childhood one which lessened as I reached my mid 20's), for me SSRI's made me feel indestructible and fearless. But they also made me feel like I had no emotions at all and removed sexual desire and affected pleasure, so I stopped taking them and instead dealt with the…
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#48It's stuff like this that is destroying the reputation of science in general. I know it's one thing to "lead to believe" and another to "show that", and perhaps that's what happened here. But every time the accepted explanation does a 180 science dies a little bit. I don't mean the big changes like relativity, but the blatant reversals. Fatty food is bad - no it's good. Carbs are great - no they're not. Drugs pulled from the market that had been "tested".
I think a lot of cases are not really reversals, but misunderstandings or incorrect interpretations of results that later get clarified. Not sure what the answer is.
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#49I've spent lots of time studying neurotransmitters and their relationship with various mental illnesses and amino acids. It has been my understanding for a while now (from the book 'The Mood Cure' by Julia Ross) that too much of a neurotransmitter can have the same symptoms as too little. That book also seemed to indicate that dopamine and serotonin have an antagonistic relationship with each other, so too little (or…
One thing that has become increasingly clear is that the simplistic "too much x" or "too little y" theory of Mental illness as a "neurotransmitter imbalance" is flawed to the point of uselessness. Neurotransmitters certainly do mediate synapse growth and activity, but the brain is a complex adaptive organ, and it will adapt to modifications to neurotransmitter levels. This is why antidepressnts become less effective…
Welcome to differential diagnosis? If that's with-doctor stage then witch-doctor shouldn't be an insult.
Understanding mechanism is very useful but not critical. If I had to choose I'd rather have a reliable way to measure mental health in a patient.
Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin
#50>> Previous studies have led researchers to believe that individuals with social anxiety disorder or social phobia have too low levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin. A new study, however, shows that the situation is exactly the opposite. It's stuff like this that is destroying the reputation of science in general. I know it's one thing to "lead to believe" and another to "show that", and perhaps that's what happe…
I don't think science dies a little bit each time a dissenting or contradictory result is published. In fact it is a good thing. We need more people to try and reproduce others work. But at the moment we have is a problem of scale. In other words it only looks bad when there are two different conclusions. We need many more reproductions to come to a clear answer.