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Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#2
I've spent lots of time studying neurotransmitters and their relationship with various mental illnesses and amino acids. It has been my understanding for a while now (from the book 'The Mood Cure' by Julia Ross) that too much of a neurotransmitter can have the same symptoms as too little. That book also seemed to indicate that dopamine and serotonin have an antagonistic relationship with each other, so too little (or too much?) serotonin can cause an excess of dopamine, which can lead to all kinds of anxiety, including potentially social phobia.

I've been considering buying books on endocrinology/neurobiology to further study these phenomena, if anyone with more knowledge/experience could enlighten me on this I'd really appreciate it.

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#3
Hmmm.. having been on an SSRI (at the time I was depressed) and suffering from a mild to middling social anxiety disorder (which stems from a chronic childhood one which lessened as I reached my mid 20's), for me SSRI's made me feel indestructible and fearless. But they also made me feel like I had no emotions at all and removed sexual desire and affected pleasure, so I stopped taking them and instead dealt with the causes of my depression. I still get bouts, but I have a mechanism in place to handle the symptoms and they mostly dissipate. That coupled with an ability to separate/compartmentalise personal and work life (as in, they just don't cross over in my mind), a lot of the stress I feel is only in the parts of my day when I am in the section of my life that I'm having issues with.

The human brain is wonderful.

So in short - I don't think I fully believe what they have found. I think the problem is that the extra Serotonin papers over the cracks well enough to work for most people. So, maybe my experience is just due to the fact it made me relax and that was the reason for my issues in the first place? Who know, I'm not a doctor. All I know is that more Serotonin felt better than less at the time.

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#4

Hmmm.. having been on an SSRI (at the time I was depressed) and suffering from a mild to middling social anxiety disorder (which stems from a chronic childhood one which lessened as I reached my mid 20's), for me SSRI's made me feel indestructible and fearless. But they also made me feel like I had no emotions at all and removed sexual desire and affected pleasure, so I stopped taking them and instead dealt with the…

I've had a similar experience. Taking SSRIs (Sertraline, initially 50mg/daily, now 100mg/daily) for social phobia and depression. They definitely helped increase my baseline for positive feelings (i.e., I don't spend as many days curled up in bed feeling hopeless), but it's true that it brings down other aspects of life. Decreased sexual function, loss of emotion in other areas, stuff like that.

I wonder whether serotonin is really the magic trick to increasing moods or whether it's just a stop-gap solution that works well enough for most.

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#5
When people use cocaine for example, and the levels of serotonin in the brain increase and people become more social. (unless they mix it with alcohol, but that's another issue)

Or is there some parabolic effect; then again, too much of something, is never good, we all know that, hence the words 'too much'

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#6
dont mess with hardware if you can fix it in software

that study is an example of a horribe broad brush approach that gets pursued because its a low hanging fruit. physcial quantities are easier to objectively measure and present and subsequently selling tanglible pills is more marketable and controllable

you can influence your neurotransmitters, endocrine system, and behaviour with thoughts and habits, for example: fantasize porn, your passion projects, see what people see when they see you, first person view in a roller coaster, check out youtube climbing scaling radio towers and skyscrapers, etc.. duh just about any engaging movie or book

manage your attention wisely

social phobia/anxiety arises from habitual limited perspective misinterpreting the environment. in some situations fear is appropriate healthy and helpful, the key solution is to notice the difference objectively

see yourself, your surroundings, other people, from an external reference/point of view, see through from outside the building, from the roof, maybe perched on top of a lamp post, birds eye view, whatever, use your illusion

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#7
In biology a single causation is almost always wrong, especially in correlation between such distant phenomena - neurotransmitter and conditioned behavior. Well, excess of serotonin could lead to "anxiety" and physical discomfort from a slightest external pressure, as it seems to be with Asperger's, but it is a mere correlation, if correct at all, not a causation. Socially conditioned behavior is way more subtle and complicated phenomena than mere neurochemistry.

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#8
post #2

I've spent lots of time studying neurotransmitters and their relationship with various mental illnesses and amino acids. It has been my understanding for a while now (from the book 'The Mood Cure' by Julia Ross) that too much of a neurotransmitter can have the same symptoms as too little. That book also seemed to indicate that dopamine and serotonin have an antagonistic relationship with each other, so too little (or…

One thing that has become increasingly clear is that the simplistic "too much x" or "too little y" theory of Mental illness as a "neurotransmitter imbalance" is flawed to the point of uselessness. Neurotransmitters certainly do mediate synapse growth and activity, but the brain is a complex adaptive organ, and it will adapt to modifications to neurotransmitter levels. This is why antidepressnts become less effective and require stronger doses, and why their sudden withdrawal leads to the massive exacerbation of symptoms. The problem isn't simply that patients "go off their meds". The problem is that meds stop working, and withdrawing them leaves the poor patient with a brain that was adapted to their presence suddenly unable to cope. The meds make the organic problem worse, but it dorsn't show until you withdraw them. We're still basically at the witch-doctor stage of "try it and see" with most if these drugs, with nothing like a proper pathology model or functional description of how the meds work to even do proper long-term studies.

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#9

Hmmm.. having been on an SSRI (at the time I was depressed) and suffering from a mild to middling social anxiety disorder (which stems from a chronic childhood one which lessened as I reached my mid 20's), for me SSRI's made me feel indestructible and fearless. But they also made me feel like I had no emotions at all and removed sexual desire and affected pleasure, so I stopped taking them and instead dealt with the…

> I still get bouts, but I have a mechanism in place to handle the symptoms and they mostly dissipate.

Can you tell me about the mechanism that helps you?

Re: Individuals with social phobia have too much serotonin

#10
excitement and anxiety are the same state just differing perception.

it is more about imagined outcomes

this is exciting and will work out well I feel safe

this is exciting and i may come to emotional or physical harm

the excitement is the same

so long as you don't fear fear itself, that is a feedback loop.

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