Hackerspace raided in Sweden • Hacker News Board

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#51

Post by Snoddas » Mon, Nov 30, 2009, 10:13 PM UTC

The police reports this was a raid on an illegal club, thy were primarily interested in illegal sales of alcohol.

In addition to the stuff taken mentioned in Hackerspaces post http://forskningsavd.se/2009/11/29/i-can-haz-moar-bout-teh-r...

Stuff confiscated. * 860 beers, 33 cl cans. * 39 bottles of booze. * 66 liters wine

Other illegal or "problematic" things found and seized * 6 improvised explosive devices. Of low explosive force, mainly used to make a big bang. * 3 high power green light laser pointers. May need a permit depending on power. * 4 Spring Billy Club or Collapsible Batons. Illegal in Sweden * 3 Cans of pepper spray. Illegal in Sweden. * 1 High Power Slingshot. Illegal in Sweden. * 2 Items of police uniform. This cannot be bought legally * 2 Devices for making keys and key raw-materials.

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#52

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 30, 2009, 11:43 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #39

gradschool wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, a password is protected by the fifth amendment only in very limited circumstances, basically when the mere knowledge of it would be evidence against you. If your equipment is seized legally with a court issued warrant, you'd normally be expected to disclose it. However, if your defense is that your system was compromised and encrypted files were put there by an attacker, there is an issue of self-incri…

I wonder if stating that the password it's self is incriminating information would also allow it to fall under Fifth Amendment protection. AKA, the password is a sentence that contains incriminating information. I it could be argued that pleading the fifth for every single question is allowed under the Fifth Amendment because what information you think might be incriminating is also incriminating information. AKA whe…

[deleted]

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#53

Post by _cbsz » Mon, Nov 30, 2009, 11:43 PM UTC

nkassis wrote: post #29

_cbsz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local, state, federal, and whatever other applicable laws permitting, you should definitely learn to open easy locks with paper clips (optionally a pair of pliers and a screwdriver as well). We did it on the last day of the graduate-level security course I took, and I will definitely never take the security of locks for granted again.

They have their use, they ensure that only sophisticated thief get away with your loot. Makes for more impressive local news coverage than this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQqk-x7dD0Abest quote is at 1:40. Skilled practice a throwing bricks.

Purchasing and using a bump key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping) is not particularly sophisticated.

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#54

Post by evgen » Mon, Nov 30, 2009, 11:43 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #39

gradschool wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, a password is protected by the fifth amendment only in very limited circumstances, basically when the mere knowledge of it would be evidence against you. If your equipment is seized legally with a court issued warrant, you'd normally be expected to disclose it. However, if your defense is that your system was compromised and encrypted files were put there by an attacker, there is an issue of self-incri…

I wonder if stating that the password it's self is incriminating information would also allow it to fall under Fifth Amendment protection. AKA, the password is a sentence that contains incriminating information. I it could be argued that pleading the fifth for every single question is allowed under the Fifth Amendment because what information you think might be incriminating is also incriminating information. AKA whe…

This is a quick route to a contempt of court charge and the judge will let you spend some quality time with the folks in the local jail until you decide that being a smartass to someone who can send you directly to jail is a bad idea.

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#55

Post by gojomo » Tue, Dec 01, 2009, 10:05 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #20

bigiain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From over this side of the world it appears those protections aren't actually of any use: http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=9462 "Police seize DJs' laptops New police chief apparently condones policy that critics call illegal and punitive"

Doesn't matter what the police chief thinks the law is. It matters what the courts think.

What the police think matters on the scale of hours, days, weeks -- because even if the courts decide otherwise, practically, the remedy is likely to be limited to the return of the equipment, with no penalties for the police. (The pattern of abuse would have to be egregious, or damages very tangible, for courts or legislatures to rule otherwise.)

Re: Hackerspace raided in Sweden

#56

Post by ranndom » Wed, Dec 02, 2009, 11:32 PM UTC

My advice to these guys:

"Better start including defenses against this stuff in your planned activities - I think since the Dutch boys showed Counterfeiting and Cuff keys on their site(s) in relation to the reprap they may as well have painted a giant red bullseye on all open hardware projects. Naivety is a fearsomely expensive trait. I too was raided 11 years ago lost 8 PC’s and a bunch of software (20,000 worth) all on a false accusation - I gave up even thinking I’d ever get it back years ago... Disperse your assets, wake up to the REAL situation, Police act, then justify those action as necessary. Analyze why you where targeted and THINK. Police time is a scarce commodity, it is not used accidentally. There are 10’s of thousands of us to each one of them. Good Luck.

Sure, I’m paranoid, but, am I paranoid ENOUGH?"

and the last line is a recursive joke... ;-)