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Depression's Upside (2010)

nytimes.com

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Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#71

Post by ionised »

geon wrote: post #55
ep103 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get out into the sun. I don't know why, but something about about getting a minimum amount of sunlight (hour?) every day improves my mood immensely throughout the rest of the day. The Seasonal Affective Disorder is real

So is vitamin D deficiency. Get some sun (or pills)!

From what I understand (maybe incorrectly) vitamin D supplements cannot make up for the vitamin D one would normally get from sunlight.

Our bodies don't process it in the same way that makes it useful to us.

Which is a shame because I spend 90% of my time indoors.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#72

Post by eivarv »

cactusface wrote: post #56
eivarv wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own thoughts and other people's communication do not have the same effect in the context you're describing. You could agree or disagree with what other people say (or whether it matters), for one, while the unreasonable thoughts and irrational thought patterns associated with depression is part of your own perspective in this case. These negative thoughts are identified by and refuted because of the fact that th…

http://www.google.com/search?q=environmental+factors+depress...

I don't know if you've actually read any of the credible results from the google query you link to, but there being environmental factors (including triggers and contributing factors) to depression does not mean that depression is a response to external events in the way that "normal"/healthy emotions are - which is what I'm getting at in the previous comment.

You might want to take a look at what the American Psychological Association and the American National Institute of Mental Health have to say about the case [0, 1], the University of Maryland's patient education article [2], Saveanu and Nemeroff's paper "Etiology of depression: genetic and environmental factors" [3], and clinical criteria (like DSM and ICD).

[0]: http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/understanding-depression.aspx

[1]: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/depression/index...

[2]: http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/depression

[3]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22370490

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#73

Post by eivarv »

javert wrote: post #63
eivarv wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own thoughts and other people's communication do not have the same effect in the context you're describing. You could agree or disagree with what other people say (or whether it matters), for one, while the unreasonable thoughts and irrational thought patterns associated with depression is part of your own perspective in this case. These negative thoughts are identified by and refuted because of the fact that th…

Correct. You are clearly dealing rationally with a complicated topic, and for someone to just spit in your face about it (the Google link comment) is incredible. There is a sibling comment to your own addressing this.

Thanks!

While the comment you're referring to is in poor tact, I think it's also kind of telling.

I've discussed a few similar topics on HN, and I'm sad to see that the ignorance surrounding mental illness is pervasive here as well. What's worse is that most of the erroneous assumptions could be corrected by a cursory reading of the Wikipedia pages of respective diagnoses.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#74

Post by [deleted] »

eivarv wrote: post #73
javert wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. You are clearly dealing rationally with a complicated topic, and for someone to just spit in your face about it (the Google link comment) is incredible. There is a sibling comment to your own addressing this.

Thanks! While the comment you're referring to is in poor tact, I think it's also kind of telling. I've discussed a few similar topics on HN, and I'm sad to see that the ignorance surrounding mental illness is pervasive here as well. What's worse is that most of the erroneous assumptions could be corrected by a cursory reading of the Wikipedia pages of respective diagnoses.

[deleted]

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#75

Post by d-equivalence »

empressplay wrote: post #46
tim333 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck. I did some and found it helpful. I kind guess personally that it works by a kind of neural network rewiring. Before CBT some neurones are taking input, processing it as indicating things being crappy and directly signalling that to the older reptilian bits of the brain that deal with that, without conscious awareness. By consciously becoming aware of the things are crappy reasoning you can argue against it…

That's essentially mindfulness too -- you catch a negative thought and then you construct a counter-argument against it to placate the reptile-brain. It's like living with a little child who's prone to temper-tantrums. Whatever it can take poorly it will, and it's your responsibility to re-frame things in a good light quickly.

But mindfulness is not about re-framing or answering back with an argument. Its exactly the opposite!

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#76

Post by hanley »

ep103 wrote: post #53
arbre wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good posture, focusing on the moment, the sensations, the breathing, accepting the thoughts but not feeding them. Do that every day and be patient. It is best to practice with other people as more experienced people can guide you. Some people start right away with a retreat. It is also a good way to start.

I... need a guide or something. I expect I'll do more research this weekend, but just sitting and listening to myself breathe? I have plenty of calmness in my life, but surely there's a difference between meditation and relaxation? Sorry, not really directing this at you, its late, kinda just stream of consciousing before sleep. I do appreciate your response : )

Check out https://www.headspace.com/ They have guided meditation that I really like. At least give the 10 free days a shot and see what you think, nothing to lose!

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#77

Post by jE22teTh »

empressplay wrote: post #48
jE22teTh wrote: post #2

In the US, a surprisingly easy way to inadvertently cause mild depression is to decrease intake of iodized salt over time. The "natural" iodine content of many foods (bread, milk) seems to be dropping steadily due to organic and other preparation practices. Kelp-extract supplements with around 200mcg of iodine daily can go a long way towards preventing mild depression associated with borderline iodine deficiency.

The problem with the idea of using supplements to solve depression is it's a bit like fine-tuning the octane of gasoline in a car to solve a bad air-fuel mixture. You could potentially make the engine run a little better, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem, which is usually emotional trauma. Developing coping mechanisms is a much better approach, also coming to acceptance (reducing resistance) about things t…

Yes, if there is an underlying deeper problem, supplements aren't the answer.

However, if it is possible to become slightly iodine deficient by eating a modern diet in the US-- which seems plausible-- and if slight iodine deficiency causes or contributes to mild depression -- which also seems plausible -- an iodine supplement could be a easy solution.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#78

Post by downvotesink »

javert wrote: post #64
tjradcliffe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think depression has a similar role. Why? I can't see any basis for your belief other than "it just makes sense to me", which is the epistemology of bloodletting and witchburning. Evolutionary just-so stories have been so thoroughly and repeatedly debunked that no one thinks they can be evidence for anything. They may be useful motivators for testable ideas, but that's all. So where is your evidence, your clinica…

Drawing correct conclusions from correctly interpreted personal experience is a lot more important than clinical studies. People brandy about "clinical studies" and "show me the data" constantly, and yet such studies generally are open to interpretation and seem to conflict with one another. If we rejected all other forms of learning, we wouldn't know anything at all. I didn't see the guy's comment (it's deleted now)…

Yes, I deleted all my comments here (under another username), due to the ridiculous responses that it prompted. Sure, I have some personal experience of depression -- both myself and family members. However there is also a lot of evidence behind what I'm saying, namely:

- situational depression, which -- as it's title says -- is in fact in response to situations. - situational depression (e.g. bereavement) has been shown to meet all the criteria of clinical/major depression in many cases.

My hypothesis simply involved making a small (in my opinion) logical jump to offer a possible explanation for why situational depression exists. Given that the article itself mentioned a number of theories for the evolutionary role of depression, I didn't think mentioning my own theory would start such a firestorm. I think it is logically tenable.

What is the reason for the hostility? Are we supposed to write peer-reviewed comments for HN? Is it just that many HN posters exhibit excessive negativity and mispaced arrogance? I've certainly seen a lot of negativity and mispaced arrogance in the past on HN, and a number of times it has made me reconsider whether or not I want to be part of this community. This time I'm getting closer to that decision.

It could also be depression itself. As others have noted, sometimes it isn't necessarily the situation that is the problem, but your reaction to events (this is what CBT aims to fix). Perhaps the excessive negativity in HN is what is causing/exacerbating some people's depression?

Anyway, I'm not really interested in interacting with idiots (and I'm not referring to you here, javert) who downvote and are overly hostile when people like me share their personal experiences and make general comments on science without posting a frickin peer reviewed paper. Feck that...

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#79

Post by j_baker »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #10
j_baker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium's really only useful if you're treating bipolar depression. It has mood stabilizing properties, and giving lithium to a non-bipolar patient will "flatten" their moods.

Disagree. I've tried low doses of lithium orotate and it had positive effects on my mood. I don't think it's inherently mood-lifting, but it lowered my anxiety by a huge margin. It was very noticeable. Suddenly, I could be around in public and not worry at all what people might think about me. Anxiety can be like chronic pain, over time, it wears you down, and can lead to depression.

You know, it can be very difficult to tell the difference between Bipolar II and unipolar depression because the manic phases are so muted and short. Food for thought. :-)

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#80

Post by RyanMcGreal »

> They began by focusing on the thought process that defines the disorder, which is known as rumination. (The verb is derived from the Latin word for “chewed over,” which describes the act of digestion in cattle, in which they swallow, regurgitate and then rechew their food.) In recent decades, psychiatry has come to see rumination as a dangerous mental habit, because it leads people to fixate on their flaws and problems, thus extending their negative moods.

This really spoke to me. My mild tendency to depression seems to be predicated entirely on rumination. To the extent that I can avoid taking the first few slippery steps in those mental pathways that spiral down into despair, I am generally able to avoid getting dragged down. That required me to accept that some existential questions aren't answerable in any satisfactory manner, and to simply stop posing them to myself.

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