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Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

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Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#51

Post by ams6110 »

earl wrote: post #41
jeremymims wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not the mentality that created a large website. The mentality that keeps people from creating ways to view the data that benefit the website's users. Craigslist won the market. Now it's time to open up. If craigslist were solely out to monetize this website, that'd be fine. But they don't. They keep some things free and Craig has made a big deal about making money in the categories that needed a charge to prevent…

Craig has made it pretty clear in interviews that he likes the UI the way it is and wants it to stay that way. Reading interviews of Craig and Jim also make clear they attribute a lot of their success to intentionally not providing features. For better or for worse.

Why should he change it? The UI is simple and functional. There is no dancing bologna to distract you. Changing it just to make it comport with some layout pattern du jour would only disorient/piss off people who are accustomed to the way it is.

37signals, another company that seems to have a decent handle on how to get users, also believes that not providing features is part of why their apps work for so many people.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#52

Post by luckydude »

You guys. Get a grip. It's his company, he built it, you didn't. He makes the rules, you don't.

If you don't like that, then go build your own site that has the same level of success and define your own rules. And deal with all the people who tell you you are doing it wrong, that's a lot of fun.

For the record, I have no connection to craigslist other than admiring it. I'm flaming because I've got my own company and I deal with this crap as well and it's annoying. If you don't like the way someone else is doing it then either go do it better or shut the fuck up.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#53

Post by ams6110 »

seiji wrote: post #14
jimboyoungblood wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their decision seems perfectly rational. if services like this one become popular, they are a huge threat to their business. they're not morally obligated to provide unfettered access to their data to anyone who wants it- i fail to see how it is "broken"

Brokenness: Show me all apartments or rooms-for-rent in mountain view with dish washers, clothes washers, and covered parking. There's no way to (legitimately) outwardly index, categorize, or aggregate craigslist content. (Related gripe: apartment searching in google is useless too: http://www.google.com/search?q=mountain+view+apartments It gets slightly better with searching on maps, but not by much.)

Many apartment/house finding sites have these features: search pages with dozens of checkboxes and dropdowns, and equally complex data entry pages for the people listing the apartments/houses. Yet Craigslist dominates. Simplicity wins.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#54

Post by skolor »

luckydude wrote: post #52

You guys. Get a grip. It's his company, he built it, you didn't. He makes the rules, you don't. If you don't like that, then go build your own site that has the same level of success and define your own rules. And deal with all the people who tell you you are doing it wrong, that's a lot of fun. For the record, I have no connection to craigslist other than admiring it. I'm flaming because I've got my own company and…

If someone is complaining about your service, it may be a good idea to listen to them. All of the "Blah, blah, if you want it you should be able to create your own super successful site" posts are really rather pointless. Yes, site/company owners have to make some tough decisions about their product, and how users can access/use it. There are going to be complaints, and there are going to be users who disagree. Telling your users to "shut the fuck up" when they're saying they disagree when you've gone from supporting them to destroying what they've built without telling them anything about it seems to be rather harsh.

Its easy to come out and say "Oh, he can do anything he wants because its his company, and if you don't like it just leave". It takes a hell of a lot more effort to actually put the finger on why a move like this (blocking an entire site which hosts various mashups, over 2000 targeting just Craigslist, without notifying the users or having any real method of notifying the "developers" why it was done, or what they can do about it) and trying to point out to the people who actually could do something about it.

As a tip, if you're getting that much flak from your users that you have to start flaming users on the internet about it, you're probably doing something wrong.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#55

Post by luckydude »

skolor wrote: post #54
luckydude wrote: post #52

You guys. Get a grip. It's his company, he built it, you didn't. He makes the rules, you don't. If you don't like that, then go build your own site that has the same level of success and define your own rules. And deal with all the people who tell you you are doing it wrong, that's a lot of fun. For the record, I have no connection to craigslist other than admiring it. I'm flaming because I've got my own company and…

If someone is complaining about your service, it may be a good idea to listen to them. All of the "Blah, blah, if you want it you should be able to create your own super successful site" posts are really rather pointless. Yes, site/company owners have to make some tough decisions about their product, and how users can access/use it. There are going to be complaints, and there are going to be users who disagree. Telli…

Thanks for the tip. The pointer to your successful site is? Sorry, cheap shot but...

And your claim that you or the other folks are a user is based on what? Craig takes care of the _actual_ users, the people who buy/sell stuff there, use it for job listings/postings, etc.

Your point about listening to your users would be valid if you actually were one. Or better yet represented a whole class of users.

The whining here comes from a set of people who are leaches. They are people who want to leverage craigslist.org. Whether it is for profit or for fun or for fame, it's leveraging the work of someone else. In no way are those people "users" of craigslist.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#56

Post by jeremymims »

hyperbovine wrote: post #46
jeremymims wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not the mentality that created a large website. The mentality that keeps people from creating ways to view the data that benefit the website's users. Craigslist won the market. Now it's time to open up. If craigslist were solely out to monetize this website, that'd be fine. But they don't. They keep some things free and Craig has made a big deal about making money in the categories that needed a charge to prevent…

"The correct moves"? Hah. It's very easy to sit around armchair quarterbacking how you would run a site that gets about four orders of magnitude more traffic than the most successful thing you have ever created. (In fact, it appears to be something of a pastime among bored, underemployed web developers, cf. "You're Killing Me Zappos" or that one about the American Airlines web site.) I fail to see what authority you…

I would hardly qualify as a bored, underemployed web developer, but I do believe there's a decent way to go about things. There is also some evidence that what Craig did was the wrong way to go about it.

1. Craig was having a discussion with Romy that was clearly misleading. The fact that there's been no further communication and pipes have been turned off demonstrates that.

2. All pipes were shut off. Even if you thought that Romy's pipe was commercial, some might not have been. Drowning everything might be easy, but it doesn't seem good.

3. He's on the board of the Wikimedia Foundation and the Sunlight Foundation. These are both great organizations that advocate for openness, transparency, and the sharing of data. These groups would despise an action like this.

Craig has a right to run his business the way he wants to. However, there's a odd level of hypocrisy here and it merits being pointed out.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#57

Post by jeremymims »

ams6110 wrote: post #51
earl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craig has made it pretty clear in interviews that he likes the UI the way it is and wants it to stay that way. Reading interviews of Craig and Jim also make clear they attribute a lot of their success to intentionally not providing features. For better or for worse.

Why should he change it? The UI is simple and functional. There is no dancing bologna to distract you. Changing it just to make it comport with some layout pattern du jour would only disorient/piss off people who are accustomed to the way it is. 37signals, another company that seems to have a decent handle on how to get users, also believes that not providing features is part of why their apps work for so many people…

37signals also makes APIs available for developers who wish to create software that relies on their products. It's one thing to say, "Hey, most of our users wouldn't appreciate this feature, but go ahead and develop it for yourself" and another to shut you down mid conversation.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#58

Post by jimboyoungblood »

hyperbovine wrote: post #44

Hold on here, let's call a spade a spade. Your project has its own doofy .com name, calls itself "alpha", and was rolled out on a web site whose primary function is to connect people who are trying to launch online business ventures. So to wave the bloody shirt after Craig stated that RSS feeds for noncommercial purposes are golden, is a little disingenuous. As others have pointed out, Craig's whole m.o. appears to b…

I don't know if Craig is "anti-business" or not, but it doesn't appear he's "anti-making-a-ton-of-money"

Check out the tax returns for the foundation: http://craigslistfoundation.org/about.html

It's safe to assume the site makes a whole lot more than $650k/year, so not a whole lot of it goes to the foundation. Where do you think the rest of the money is going?

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#59

Post by jimboyoungblood »

derwiki wrote: post #38
jimboyoungblood wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist nets tens of millions in profits each year, most of which I would assume ends up eventually in Craig Newmark and Jim Buckmaster's personal bank accounts. I would guess they are operating under the principle of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I'm pretty sure a lot of the money goes to: http://craigslistfoundation.org/ I'm also pretty sure they only charge when the community begs for it (apartment listings in major cities, as a barrier to keep out spam) and are legally obligated (escort services, http://www.seattlepi.com/business/386655_craigslist07.html )

If you look at their tax returns, $650k of it went to the foundation. That's spare change relative to their probable earnings.

Re: Craigslist blocks Yahoo Pipes

#60

Post by cdibona »

slay2k wrote: post #48
hyperbovine wrote: post #44

Hold on here, let's call a spade a spade. Your project has its own doofy .com name, calls itself "alpha", and was rolled out on a web site whose primary function is to connect people who are trying to launch online business ventures. So to wave the bloody shirt after Craig stated that RSS feeds for noncommercial purposes are golden, is a little disingenuous. As others have pointed out, Craig's whole m.o. appears to b…

It would only be disingenuous if there was any kind of commercial aspect to the site as it stands. There was none, and "rolling it out" on HN is merely asking for feedback, not trying to sign up paid users. In the email exchange I've had with Craig, not all of which I've posted, I've asked him to clarify on this point: "Oh, and about being noncommercial. A bunch of the RSS mashup sites I've seen, like Craiglook, thro…

I hate to break it to you, but it doesn't matter if there is no 'sign' of commercial purpose. Are you a non-profit? If you are, let them know. In my experience they'll hear you out.
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