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Squareup

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Re: Squareup

#101

Post by asciilifeform »

yan wrote: post #99
asciilifeform wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Entering an amount per transaction might be burdensome to the average consumer Shoppers have dealt with counting out money for millenia. The time spent is a small price to pay for total security against remote theft. At the very least, those of us who are not terminally lazy ought to have the option of paying it. > a display on the card that simply verifies the amount charged on most recent transaction Ever have yo…

> Shoppers have dealt with counting out money for millenia. People have also worked 16 hour days to feed their families for millenia; no one's going to do that now. The amount of effort something takes almost always decreases. > The time spent is a small price to pay for total security against remote theft. At the very least, those of us who are not terminally lazy ought to have the option of paying it. How does this…

> Once you try to buy something online, you're outside the scope of your physical card.

A built-in LCD gives you a single-use credit card number. (Such a product already exists, though a Windows-only PC app.)

> If you want to spend $25 to get an RSA token to provide a code every time you purchase something, I don't see anything wrong with that service being offered to you.

And yet the service is offered by no one, and I don't think anyone has yet tried and failed.

> Again, I don't see how a two-factor system would prevent this

A number is good for one transaction, like a gift card code. In the case of my proposed scheme, it is effectively a PGP message signed with your private key, containing the transaction amount, recipient, and a serial number. The bank shall not process any attempted transaction which is not signed by an account holder's key or contains a duplicate serial number.

Re: Squareup

#102

Post by jedc »

ericd wrote: post #72
bumblebird wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand the niche it's aiming to fill. Most stores/restaurants have portable card readers these days, so is it a poor-mans one of those? I guess I'm wondering what use-case it's aiming at. Also I absolutely would not trust someone swiping my card through one of these. I like a closed box that is obviously provided by a bank, which cannot be tampered with. Not an iphone that could be doing anything w…

I've seen only a couple restaurants in NYC where the waiters have portable card readers. And if they roll out person-to-person, this would be a whole lot nicer than, say, having your friend write you a check.

Really??

Maybe this is a European thing, but here in London every restaurant has a number of portable card readers. (Everyone here also uses chip & pin, though, too.) As a consumer, it's awesome... much faster than the old days, and a hell of a lot easier to split the bill when you want to do that.

Re: Squareup

#103

Post by olefoo »

vaksel wrote: post #68
Nycto wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like what you are suggesting is akin to credit card skimming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud#Skimming How is this any different?

barrier to entry is much smaller, you don't need to piggy back on a legit business or have to play a spy to install a skimmer at the bank. All you need is a taxi, and iPhone, and you can go around town collecting credit card numbers. And unlike websites, there is no paper trail to link you to the scam.

Your iPhone leaves a data trail, at the provider, at wifi spots, at bluetooth sensors. Now someone who is technically adept could muddy that trail considerably. But the basic forensic evidence is still there. And remember, for the most part criminals are human, and make human mistakes; they will do a transaction in full view of a security camera, or something equally dumb. It's no better and not much worse than the systems we have now.

Re: Squareup

#104

Post by mitko »

asciilifeform wrote: post #89

This may come as a shock to some, but: Magnetic cards (and all existing RFID equivalents) are bad. Instead of encouraging their use, we should be creating the mostly fraud-proof obvious alternative: one in which a single transaction does not give the other party permanent access to your wallet. Picture a card with a key pad on it, for entering a dollar amount. The transaction (through RFID?) would be valid for only t…

To increase the reliablity of a system, improve the weak links in a system, not the strong.

In a computer systems class we had a lecture about security and cryptographics. There were many case studies of fraud, and almost none of them were deciphering codes. There were many other way easier approaches to steal money from bank accounts.

Re: Squareup

#105

Post by diego »

Splines wrote: post #65
vaksel wrote: post #37

This sounds like a money grab business to me. They'll launch, make a couple hundred mil, then they'll get hit with fraud, a ton of people will lose money, and they'll be forced to shut down, since noone will want to use the service, in fear of getting defrauded. Since there is no barrier to entry, it'll be like 2 weeks before someone comes out with a black market version, that will look exactly the same, but instead…

I'm pretty sure this is a risk borne by the credit card industry already. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this is essentially the same risk as that of handing your credit card to a waiter.

This device can be used with any computer or smart phone. I'd be worried about businesses using insecure computers connected to the internet instead of POS machines where people don't click on links to install untrusted software.

Re: Squareup

#107

Post by olefoo »

atamyrat wrote: post #63
dannyr wrote: post #58

Good technology but it's mainly for businesses. I'm still waiting for the ability to pay with your cellphone to any merchant. This is happening in Japan and Korea right now among others. Maybe an IPhone or Android will have an RFID chip in the future. Or maybe there will be a mobile app that displays a QR code that a merchant can scan and grab your credit card information.

No, it should be other way, merchant displays QR code with merchant's identity, payment amount, transaction ID and you authorize the transaction.

I like this idea.

You could have expiring and non-expiring offers too, so that you could have a payment station that was not much more than a sign with a barcode.

Re: Squareup

#108

Post by olefoo »

kevindication wrote: post #32
uggedal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sex industry could be a large market.

In such a market, anonymity is probably preferred.

Gift Cards. See things like http://www.swapagift.com/ And http://www.valutec.net/

Be careful though, under US law since 2001, you are probably committing a financial crime by doing anything that looks like anonymous digital cash.

Re: Squareup

#109

Post by grandalf »

jfarmer wrote: post #50
vaksel wrote: post #37

This sounds like a money grab business to me. They'll launch, make a couple hundred mil, then they'll get hit with fraud, a ton of people will lose money, and they'll be forced to shut down, since noone will want to use the service, in fear of getting defrauded. Since there is no barrier to entry, it'll be like 2 weeks before someone comes out with a black market version, that will look exactly the same, but instead…

There are regulatory barriers and I'm sure the audio coupler technology they're using is patent-pending.

Why wouldn't it just work to use the camera and do OCR on the front of the card... seems like the little gizmo is way overkill for something fairly simple.

Re: Squareup

#110

Post by wmf »

ivankirigin wrote: post #10
boucher wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite is true. The hardware is almost a gimmick to push what is otherwise a potentially powerful service. The theory behind this app is that individuals are now empowered to take credit cards for anything they previously would have had to take a cash or check for, which is increasingly important in our society where credit cards are becoming the normal way to pay for things. As for the hardware, it's a…

You're 100% correct. Hardware is cool, but the merchant services side is what makes Square awesome

How is that different from PayPal? To me the hardware is what Square is about.
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