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Oculus Rift

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Re: Oculus Rift

#351
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> not even close Huh. What the fuck have I been doing for the last 6 months, then?

I'm not criticising your project at all -- just saying that my experience with current VR display tech is such that I can't imagine reading text for more than 30 seconds. The aliasing and distortion would make my eyes bleed pretty quickly. The time will come for textual VR environments though! I can't wait to have "newspaper resolution" for textures (hold up a virtual newspaper in a VR world and you can actually read…

It's nowhere near as bad as you've described. Even on the 960x1080 DK2, the readability of text has more to do with texture quality (both total resolution and good filtering for mipmaps). On a 2d display, the pixels are static on the display and text is mapped essentially 1-to-1 (or a fixed n-to-m when using subpixel antialiasing). But on an HMD, antialiasing is basically 'free', and the constant, minuscule bob of the head creates a dynamic, temporal aliasing that improves the readability of the text. We've known about the effect since the 80s or 90s, when psychologists figured out the dynamic environment of real flight improved the apparent eyesight of pilots over static images.

There are a lot of people who are doing text wrong in VR. You don't render at 10pt and expect it to look right. You have to pay attention and not just take the default settings.

I've spent much time reading and writing text in VR and it hasn't been a problem. If building a real, live code editing environment were my goal, I could have it done in a week. But I have different goals.

Re: Oculus Rift

#352
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Also lackluster considering cooler possibilities like leap motion[1]. 1. https://www.leapmotion.com/product/vr

The original Leap Motion doesn't really cut it. The company is moving on with a new technology called Dragonfly for VR: http://www.roadtovr.com/ces-2015-leap-motion-co-founders-tal...

Dragonfly has some pretty significant hardware advantages for passthrough and FOV, but the biggest challenge is really at the software level, which is common to all our devices. (Full disclosure: lead writer at Leap)

Re: Oculus Rift

#353
post #19
post #7

I am still not sold on VR, but I feel that AR (Augmented Reality) really is the future. 1) AR seems to help in real world situations vs VR which actually makes you feel vulnerable due to lack of vision and impaired hearing of what is around you. 2) VR also has the issue with physical issues with nausea and 10% of people with lazy eyes or other optical issues that make them unable to see 3D clearly. 3) Star Trek Holos…

But AR requires several technological leaps beyond VR in terms of transparent screens and location tracking. So I'd expect to see usable VR headsets to appear in homes a generation two before AR ones. I mean, the HoloLens is additive . That means if you want to show a dark object in a room with white walls, you cant .

Transparent screens are definitely the way forward, but don't discount the possibilities of camera-to-screen passthrough within Gen 1 VR devices. Ultimately the distinction between AR and VR is going to dissolve to the point where it's just different ends of a spectrum -- add enough objects and backgrounds to the real world, and you get a virtual world.

Re: Oculus Rift

#354
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Also lackluster considering cooler possibilities like leap motion[1]. 1. https://www.leapmotion.com/product/vr

Leap Motion has been a pretty big let down, though I have not yet tried the latest tools they have released.

Hope you'll give it a shot; Image Hands significantly reduces the kinds of jitters that can ruin a decent user experience. In case you haven't yet, be sure to calibrate and optimize your tracking: http://blog.leapmotion.com/troubleshooting-guide-vr-tracking...

Re: Oculus Rift

#355
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Also lackluster considering cooler possibilities like leap motion[1]. 1. https://www.leapmotion.com/product/vr

The LEAP is a really inexact input device. Used it for a project this winter and the only reliable input we found was the position and rotation of the whole hand.

Lead writer at Leap here; sorry to hear about your bad experience. We hit some solid tracking improvement milestones this spring with the 2.2+ series of core software builds, and there are some larger improvements on the way. If you're looking to revisit it at any point in time, be sure to try our VR troubleshooting guide: http://blog.leapmotion.com/troubleshooting-guide-vr-tracking...

If that doesn't work, you can reach out to me directly: acolgan@leapmotion.com

Re: Oculus Rift

#356
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I normally play games on a PS4 or PS Vita. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. You are simply not the target market for an ultra-high-end PC gaming peripheral.

Early 30s, no kids, good amount of disposable income, and a keen interest in VR. How am I not in the target market for an ultra-high-end PC gaming peripheral? Because I don't want to spend hours figuring out what today's best set of gaming PC components are? That's silly. I am the personification of the "Shut up and take my money" meme with regard to buying a Rift.

well, for a start, by list you gave you don't own a PC per se (albeit apple is just rebranded overpriced PC with their proprietary OS, from my humble point of view). or do you consider PS4 a PC? Your post doesn't make much sense to me...

Re: Oculus Rift

#357
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not criticising your project at all -- just saying that my experience with current VR display tech is such that I can't imagine reading text for more than 30 seconds. The aliasing and distortion would make my eyes bleed pretty quickly. The time will come for textual VR environments though! I can't wait to have "newspaper resolution" for textures (hold up a virtual newspaper in a VR world and you can actually read…

It's nowhere near as bad as you've described. Even on the 960x1080 DK2, the readability of text has more to do with texture quality (both total resolution and good filtering for mipmaps). On a 2d display, the pixels are static on the display and text is mapped essentially 1-to-1 (or a fixed n-to-m when using subpixel antialiasing). But on an HMD, antialiasing is basically 'free', and the constant, minuscule bob of th…

That's very interesting. My experience may be colored by the Oculus Mobile experience, which has a higher resolution than the desktop DK2 but a much weaker GPU and much less RAM to play with. (That's because the VR is rendered by the phone.)

Texture filtering on the Galaxy Note 4's embedded GPU is probably not a priority. On a 2560*1440 phone screen, who can even see those artifacts? So it could be that the hardware and drivers are taking quite a few shortcuts there, and those come to haunt on the Oculus.

Re: Oculus Rift

#358
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nowhere near as bad as you've described. Even on the 960x1080 DK2, the readability of text has more to do with texture quality (both total resolution and good filtering for mipmaps). On a 2d display, the pixels are static on the display and text is mapped essentially 1-to-1 (or a fixed n-to-m when using subpixel antialiasing). But on an HMD, antialiasing is basically 'free', and the constant, minuscule bob of th…

That's very interesting. My experience may be colored by the Oculus Mobile experience, which has a higher resolution than the desktop DK2 but a much weaker GPU and much less RAM to play with. (That's because the VR is rendered by the phone.) Texture filtering on the Galaxy Note 4's embedded GPU is probably not a priority. On a 2560*1440 phone screen, who can even see those artifacts? So it could be that the hardware…

It could just be the programmers who made whatever you've tried don't know very much about texturing. Most of the AAA games I've tried in VR have not had text that was even remotely readable, and it was all because it was rendered too small.

The Gear VR has a fairly decent GPU. The move to mobile was more about discarding legacy fixed-function pipeline techniques and more directly optimizing for shaders. The main factor limiting texture-fill is GPU RAM. But most devices have more than enough RAM to be able to render text well.

VR is a realism multiplier. Traditional 3D graphics techniques are realism fakers. You shouldn't apply many traditional graphics techniques, because they have perspective-dependent artifacts that are subtle to impossible to notice in mono still images but glaring in stereo motion. So I think it's folly to apply too much effort on things like displacement shaders or stereo textures. These sort of things both A) cost a lot of time, and B) look terrible in an unrestricted stereo view. There's even new research to suggest one's general hormonal balance can have a huge impact in whether or not these miscues are going to cause simulator sickness in a user. You could literally be alienating half of your potential users along gender lines.

In the face of that, I think it makes more sense to stick to simpler techniques that respect the Hippocratic Oath: first, do no harm. We've been able to write some 3D games that run at 150fps for over a decade now. But there is no 150hz display to pair it with. V-sync is probably the most important issue, followed closely by running at native resolution (so for a given GPU, a lower resolution screen might actually be better, because it will be easier to hit the full refresh rate at the native resolution) and clean, consistent antialiasing. It wouldn't be a problem if both eyes were rendered identically, but having the dual eyes highlights any visual artifacts that appear. Match those three issues and the realism of the content doesn't matter, it could be flat-color, Phong-shaded cubes and you'll have a great VR experience. Miss any of them and even high-end games like Elite: Dangerous that are gorgeous on 2D will look like complete garbage.

VR has completely inverted the priorities of graphics programmers. Because of this, I think the primary VR innovation is going to come from indie developers, because most established companies can't switch their focus away from their 2D-display oriented consumer base. The Call of Duty series has sold over 175 million units. Assume nearly $40 a pop, that makes over $7 billion. You're not going to see VR getting anywhere near that for a few years still, and companies like Activision and EA aren't going to chase after such small potatoes in anyway other than just PR.

Re: Oculus Rift

#359
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every graphics card has been PCI-E for a decade. If it fits and has power, any card will work in any motherboard. You do want to pay attention to the mobo choice if the card itself requires PCI-E v3.0. There are still a lot of v2.0 mobos for sale. Most mobos have at least one 16x slot, which is the one you'll want to use. Things get a little more complicated with multi-GPU card builds.

>You do want to pay attention to the mobo choice if the card itself requires PCI-E v3.0. Nope. PCI-E 3 capable cards work perfectly in PCI-E 2 motherboards. In fact, no graphics card currently on the market can significantly benefit from the boost offered by PCI-E 3. This includes Titan Xs in SLI: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7089/geforce-gtx-titan-twoway-... >Things get a little more complicated with multi-GPU card…

Nope. PCI-E 3 capable cards work perfectly in PCI-E 2 motherboards. In fact, no graphics card currently on the market can significantly benefit from the boost offered by PCI-E 3

Ah, OK. When shopping for a GPU compute server, I was paying attention to PCI-E 3.0 vs. 2.0 on the server motherboards.

I had assumed that it was a similar situation with consumer graphics cards these days, given how long v3.0 has been out.

Re: Oculus Rift

#360
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Even if the visible, readable real-estate is limited, I think there's be a huge usability boost from using... "virtual monitors" is a terribly ambiguous phrase... virtually co-located monitors? The key metric for me is how much information I can access with input under a minimal threshold. From personal experience, a hotkey to swap virtual desktops (e.g. Alt+Up) still isn't the same as having multiple physica…

> Would be curious whether a fuzzier, internal-sensor-only, limited "intent" tracking mode (e.g. flick head to switch monitor) would make people hurl or not. Yes, it would. This has been studied pretty extensively, the head movements need to be very precisely matched by rendering. The absolute worst you can do is any kind of non-linear response -- acceleration + lag can make people who are very tolerant of VR nausea…

Oh, it's not that bad. Jesus, people make more out of this stuff than is at all necessary. How did people ever adopt cars or boats, talking like that?

And use it on any sort of system that can show the outside world (AR, or pass through camera in VR) and it goes away completely.

Gesture interfaces could work.

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