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How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

bbc.co.uk

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Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#91

Post by wobbleblob »

grumpydog wrote: post #89
wobbleblob wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a number of blanket statements ready about Europe, but Europe is a very diverse place, much more so than the US. Norway, Turkey, Russia, Luxembourg, the UK differ much more from each other than Alaska, Louisiana, Texas, New York, California. In the end I don't think it has much to do with 'America' vs 'Not America', but with Silicon Valley having been the place where it started. You can't create a second silic…

Since when Turkey and Russia became "Europe"? Don't get me wrong - probably both are super-interesting places in their own right, but including them into "Europe" is like including Mexico and Brasil into "America". Again, nothing wrong with those as well, they are just vastly different places, far outside of "education and taxes in US vs. that in EU" discourse.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but it's basic geography and history.

Russia has been part of Europe ever since it was founded in the middle ages. It only built an Asian empire from the 17th century onward. Russia is European in just the same way as the UK and France were before they lost their empires.

Turkey became part of Europe when the Ottomans started expanding into Europe, in the 14th century. Even today, the largest city in Europe is Istanbul, Turkey. Fun fact: Istanbul has more inhabitants than most EU member states.

I was responding to that 'paulgraham' article, and he consistently talks about 'Europe' (not the EU) like it's this one homogeneous blob.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#92

Post by ebfe »

vfclists wrote: post #42

It only shows the American political establishment prefers a capitalist system that impoverishes white people rather than have a fair social system that has the side effect of benefiting blacks and latinos as well. Ditto Brazil.

Could you provide an example of a country with a >10% black population that has a social system we should emulate?

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#93

Post by spdionis »

draz wrote: post #63
jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

"If you take a 3500 $ Swedish salary with all the taxes applied, your life level might be equivalent as a 7000 $ salary in US." Completely agree. I live and work in Manhattan. I love the city (!) But between Federal taxes, state taxes, and city taxes, the reality is that I pay over 40% taxes. Yet, I receive none of the benefits European countries offer their citizens: state sponsored healthcare, subsidized (and good)…

In countries like Sweden I think the tax cut is around 60%.

Also, Europeans don't have near as much military power, there's where your money goes :).

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#94

Post by pluma »

germanier wrote: post #90
pluma wrote: post #84

Pedantic tangent: saying Germany has "abandoned" tuition fees is not entirely correct. Until a few years ago there were no tuition fees in public universities in Germany. In fact there still aren't any non-public universities, though there are private academies. University education is also not as common in Germany as it is in the US: although more jobs require formal education and certification in Germany (e.g. if y…

You offer great additional information (the basics of this are all included in the article). Just another additional remark: None of the administration fee goes to the university itself, it is divided between the students and the Studentenwerk (which is separate from the university and organizes things like dining halls).

Also, several universities were risking fines because they collected the tuition fees but never used them for anything.

Part of the problem was that tuition fees were legally required to be used only in certain ways ("Verbesserung der Qualität der Lehre", literally "improving the quality of education") but most of the new projects the universities actually started were changes to the administration or constructing new buildings (including lecture halls) rather than hiring more teachers or actually improving the education.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#95

Post by SEJeff »

danmaz74 wrote: post #71
SEJeff wrote: post #10

Perhaps we should send more kids to Europe for schooling to see how a civil society lives, then bring them back after graduating to fix the problems with America. win/win :)

Except we Europeans would pay for your kids education, and get nothing in return. Win/lose.

The kids of today grow up to become the leaders of tomorrow. If they grow up with a European worldview and come back to the US, that certainly couldn't be a bad thing.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#96

Post by danmaz74 »

SEJeff wrote: post #95
danmaz74 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we Europeans would pay for your kids education, and get nothing in return. Win/lose.

The kids of today grow up to become the leaders of tomorrow. If they grow up with a European worldview and come back to the US, that certainly couldn't be a bad thing.

I didn't think about this effect and probably it would have at least some positives. But I think most US leaders will come from Ivy League universities anyway.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#97

Post by adamcanady »

spiritplumber wrote: post #68
hatmatrix wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One the one had, a driver's license is not required in many German cities on account of their public transportation systems. However it is useful sometimes for intercity travel. But then they have a culture of ride-sharing too.

A person who knows how to operate a vehicle is always going to be better off in life than a person who doesn't. Emergencies happen, road trips happen, etc.

Actually, I think that's incorrect. I'd say that the median person who knows how to drive is better off than the median person without that skill. Certainly the best person who doesn't know how to drive is better off than the worst person who can drive, and it probably has nothing to do with driving ability.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#98

Post by spiritplumber »

adamcanady wrote: post #97
spiritplumber wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who knows how to operate a vehicle is always going to be better off in life than a person who doesn't. Emergencies happen, road trips happen, etc.

Actually, I think that's incorrect. I'd say that the median person who knows how to drive is better off than the median person without that skill. Certainly the best person who doesn't know how to drive is better off than the worst person who can drive, and it probably has nothing to do with driving ability.

As an electrical engineer who minored in philosophy, I gladly concede the point and accept the correction.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#99

Post by draz »

spdionis wrote: post #93
draz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you take a 3500 $ Swedish salary with all the taxes applied, your life level might be equivalent as a 7000 $ salary in US." Completely agree. I live and work in Manhattan. I love the city (!) But between Federal taxes, state taxes, and city taxes, the reality is that I pay over 40% taxes. Yet, I receive none of the benefits European countries offer their citizens: state sponsored healthcare, subsidized (and good)…

In countries like Sweden I think the tax cut is around 60%. Also, Europeans don't have near as much military power, there's where your money goes :).

Countries like Sweden (or maybe it's the only one) also adjusts the fine for speeding according to one's income. If you make a lot, $250 fine isn't going to deter you from speeding. But $200K might (there's probably an upper limit?)

Looks like they're using their brains there...

Ok, I'm convinced -- anyone hiring in Europe? ;-)

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#100

Post by coldtea »

billforsternz wrote: post #45
coldtea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how both his, your initial and your second comment don't say anything else besides that the title is linkbait and that it says free where in fact you pay a very very small amount? You might have been complaining about something else besides free, but information about what would that be is totally absent from your comments.

Possibly by "his" you mean me, so I perhaps owe an explanation. I thought the point Mithaldu was making was sufficiently obvious. Instead of a title signaling the contents of the article in a straightforward manner, a more sensational sounding title was chosen. A step along the path to "Click here to learn the one amazing simple free education trick expensive US universities don't want you to know about". But the res…

>Instead of a title signaling the contents of the article in a straightforward manner, a more sensational sounding title was chosen.

That's because the title should also get you to want to READ the article, and do it in 10 words or less.

But that doesn't mean it was click-bait and certainly not to the degree of titles like "amazing simple education trick" etc. If it was a "step along that path" it was a very very small step.

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