How US students get a university degree for free in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#61

Post by jguegant » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 3:48 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #56

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

And then you have all the French engineers currently moving to Silicon Valley because a $1XXk salary working for a world known tech company is more interesting than 30k € working for an SSII where you'll have a chain of 10 MBAs above you, or applying to companies that won't even look at your resume unless your degree is certified by the CTI, even if you're probably a better engineer than 90% of their employees. Well,…

I am not saying whether the European system is better or far worse, just explaining why our systems permit free studies easily.

France is clearly lacking of interesting jobs (SII) in IT, expect research maybe. Europe is also far from having a perfect society, but nothing is black or white, just gray.

I was working only few weeks ago in Hong-Kong for the biggest French bank in HFT and had a decent salary as a graduated. Hong-Kong follows the US style. I was asked to move to NY for 1XXk but finally opted for a life in Sweden for many other reasons. Anyway, I did my research about NY. With the 1XXk in NY, you must pay a 3000$ * 12 rent (36k) for a 40m², put 1/3 for a future retirement and in case of a terrible health problem (30k$). When you get children, you must pay everything by your own, like fees for 2 children = 15000$ * 2 (30k$). Plus you work 30% hours more, hence make 30% more per hour. Statistically, Americans are richer, so it must be interesting to move there especially when single. It highly depends on your life style and your expected work-life balance.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#62

Post by dylanjermiah » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 3:50 AM UTC

vfclists wrote: post #42

It only shows the American political establishment prefers a capitalist system that impoverishes white people rather than have a fair social system that has the side effect of benefiting blacks and latinos as well. Ditto Brazil.

You are mistaken, the American system is certainly not true free market capitalism. It is crony capitalism.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#63

Post by draz » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 3:53 AM UTC

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

"If you take a 3500 $ Swedish salary with all the taxes applied, your life level might be equivalent as a 7000 $ salary in US." Completely agree.

I live and work in Manhattan. I love the city (!) But between Federal taxes, state taxes, and city taxes, the reality is that I pay over 40% taxes. Yet, I receive none of the benefits European countries offer their citizens: state sponsored healthcare, subsidized (and good) education, etc. It's a real shame because I think it reflects very poorly on us, as a "first world" society.

For those not from the area, a few figures to give you a sense of things: - the truth is that public schools have a bad reputation. There are a few exceptional public schools (Stuyvesant, Hunter, Bronx Science), but they're highly selective and certainly can't fit every kid in the city. I know many who send their kids to private schools (>$30K or $40K per year in tuition fees) - health insurance is tied to one's employer, and while some is subsidized by employer), it is paid out of employee's paycheck to a private insurance company.

So, yeah, taxes may be high in France, Germany, and many other countries, but there's some return.

Again, I love NYC and all it has to offer. Objectively, one has to be honest about the pros and cons living here.

Disclaimer: I am married to a European. Perhaps I've been drinking the kool-aid :-)

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#64

Post by HeavenFox » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 4:00 AM UTC

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

It's probably wrong to accuse the Chinese. Most I know actually want to stay, but it's very hard for them to. For that reason, many Chinese choose to go to US/Canada despite being much more expensive (ironic right)

The reasons I've seen are that European companies tend to hire local people; student visa don't come with work authorization post-graduation (the 1-year OPT in the U.S. can immensely help when seeking job - for the company, they can essentially bring you in without any extra cost, and when the year is up, either you've proven your value so they can justify a costly work visa, or they can just let you go); cultural barrier is higher in a homogeneous country; etc.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#65

Post by jguegant » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 4:02 AM UTC

jalayir wrote: post #58

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

If you want the Chinese to stay, you also need to have a suitable work/entrepreneurship visa policy.

That's true. And I guess half of them wished they could stay. When people abuse the system, it always destroys the dream of some others. No offences to Chinese people either, their high population just makes them more "visible" when it comes to that kind of problem.

As far as I remember in France if you do a 2 years master's degrees, you have a VISA for 1 year to search for a job. One can even search for part-time jobs during his studies. If you succeed, after 2 years more, you can ask for the French citizenship. But, sadly, it collides with the Chinese policy that rejects double nationalities.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#66

Post by jguegant » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 4:03 AM UTC

HeavenFox wrote: post #64

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

It's probably wrong to accuse the Chinese. Most I know actually want to stay, but it's very hard for them to. For that reason, many Chinese choose to go to US/Canada despite being much more expensive (ironic right) The reasons I've seen are that European companies tend to hire local people; student visa don't come with work authorization post-graduation (the 1-year OPT in the U.S. can immensely help when seeking job…

To quote myself: "That's true. And I guess half of them wished they could stay. When people abuse the system, it always destroys the dream of some others. No offences to Chinese people either, their high population just makes them more "visible" when it comes to that kind of problem.

As far as I remember in France if you do a 2 years master's degrees, you have a VISA for 1 year to search for a job. One can even search for part-time jobs during his studies. If you succeed, after 2 years more, you can ask for the French citizenship. But, sadly, it collides with the Chinese policy that rejects double nationalities."

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#67

Post by GuiA » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 4:13 AM UTC

jguegant wrote: post #61

GuiA wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you have all the French engineers currently moving to Silicon Valley because a $1XXk salary working for a world known tech company is more interesting than 30k € working for an SSII where you'll have a chain of 10 MBAs above you, or applying to companies that won't even look at your resume unless your degree is certified by the CTI, even if you're probably a better engineer than 90% of their employees. Well,…

I am not saying whether the European system is better or far worse, just explaining why our systems permit free studies easily. France is clearly lacking of interesting jobs (SII) in IT, expect research maybe. Europe is also far from having a perfect society, but nothing is black or white, just gray. I was working only few weeks ago in Hong-Kong for the biggest French bank in HFT and had a decent salary as a graduate…

Yup. SF is the same as NYC. I ran the calculations a while back, and for my lifestyle I've found out that it's hugely advantageous to work in the bay area until I have kids, and then move back to Europe when I do (unless I'm crazy successful and have a high net worth).

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#68

Post by spiritplumber » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 4:54 AM UTC

hatmatrix wrote: post #40

SEJeff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I dated a German exchange student in highschool (in the US). When asked why she came to the US, she said her dad sent all of her siblings to the US to take driver's ed and get their US license as it was valid in Germany. Apparently it is many thousands of dollars^Weuros to get all of the necessary requirements completed to get a German drivers license. I didn't mean to come off quite like I originally phrased t…

One the one had, a driver's license is not required in many German cities on account of their public transportation systems. However it is useful sometimes for intercity travel. But then they have a culture of ride-sharing too.

A person who knows how to operate a vehicle is always going to be better off in life than a person who doesn't. Emergencies happen, road trips happen, etc.

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#69

Post by jkimmel » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 5:11 AM UTC

montecarl wrote: post #31

backtobecks wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ermm... elaborate a bit more on this? please?

In science and engineering, PhD students are typically paid a salary and have their tuition waived. This is mostly funded by the federal government though the NSF, DOE, DOD, etc.

This isn't exactly the case.

Many training funding mechanisms (ie. NIH Training Grants, Fellowship awards, & Career Grants/"K-awards") are not allowed to fund non-residents [1]. Funding international students is a difficult problem for most PhD programs in the life sciences. I don't have direct experience in physical/social sciences, but I believe similar restrictions apply to NSF funds.

I believe most PhD programs cover international students using a mixture of direct project funds (ie. an NIH R01, the same grant that covers reagents/equipment), private fellowships, and endowment money.

1 -- http://www.niaid.nih.gov/researchfunding/sop/pages/foreignwo...

Re: How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

#70

Post by IndianAstronaut » Fri, Jun 05, 2015, 5:42 AM UTC

jguegant wrote: post #53

French here, the tuitions are close to 0 in Finland and France too (granted that you learn French). Our parents pay up to 50% (I don't have the exact percentage) of various taxes based on their salaries and daily life goods, and we as children will do the same. It makes sense that our government rewards us in some way: health care for free, school for free, retirement... In Europe, the government avoids you to shoot…

Chinese getting a western eduction is a good thing. They learn some western culture, human rights, freedom, etc.