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Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

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Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#122
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the reverse question would be: why shouldn't it? Why should I focus on living happily and have family and relationships? I'll be dead anyway, and so will everyone I ever loved. So I guess it's up to one to pick for him/herself. Some want to focus on their own small world, others want to leave behind some lasting change affecting many.

People try to be happy because they intrinsically want to be happy. Not because being happy matters after you're dead -- obviously you're not in a state to be happy after you're dead. At least not in this world. Why do people want to make a lasting change ? Purely for intrinsic reasons? Or is there some hidden assumption like for example that it will make them happy in their later years?

Satisfaction from seeing "fruits of your labor" improve the condition of everyone is also a source of happiness. I don't think it's worse than happiness from having a good family life. I also don't think there's some kind of "altruism" that isn't ultimately just another way of getting happiness - maybe a more intellectual one, out of the feeling of doing something one considers morally good.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#123
I have nothing but empathy for her grief - everything I've read about her makes her seem like an amazing woman, but I am very deeply uncomfortable with public displays of emotion like this.

I guess this is one of those dumb culturally ingrained traits, because rationally I cannot really come up with any reason why it should make me feel so uneasy, but I feel like I'm gawking when I read someone describing their grief so publicly.

I wish her and her family the best. May they find the strength to go on.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#124
post #88

> Judaism calls for a period of intense mourning known as shiva that lasts seven days after a loved one is buried. It's strange to me to prescribe how long people should mourn. Some people are appalled when someone seems to get over someone quickly after they've died. But if they are truly not sad about it any more, I say good for them. What does it help the deceased for the living to be sad over them?

Judaism does not require that a person be sad (or not sad) during that time. A person's emotions are what they are.

The mourning time is about actions, yes. But it's more about community. During the shiva a person does not work, and (if they want it) will receive many many visits from members of the community (even people they do not know personally). They can receive those visitors however they want, just as someone to talk to, people who can help, or simply as expressions of support.

People visiting someone during shiva are advised not to talk, but rather to listen. Or even simply to just be there without saying anything. If the mourner wants to talk they will, and if not they won't.

This type of community support is one of the ways Judaism has lasted so long in the face of so much persecution.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being remembered, it's about your life having positive impact beyond those you can personally see.

Yeah, but the question nobody's posing is: why should it? That's a question I personally can't answer. I don't see any higher meaning in "leaving a legacy". You'll be dead anyway. Why shouldn't we focus on living a better, more relaxed and less stressful life while we're here to recognize that?

Good question... Somehow if we can get out of the hyper rationalist maximization seeking robot mentality, an answer of some form may present itself. Accepting death helps. Not just my own but that of much more. Buddhism has some very interesting insights here. And I bring up belief deliberately, because the answer here is faith. Not certainty, but faith. Whatever it may be (leave legacy, do no harm, etc), it's doing what you believe that results in a satisfactory answer.

If you were born into a very tough situation in a war torn or third world country, you'd do what you needed to with what was given to you. While we do have a lot of material wealth and might have more free time, we still face the same great equalizer: death. As do our civilizations and our planet (and likely us, way before that). Given the constraints, you can simply "try your best". Living without regrets might be a job to one person, a 90 hour startup to another, traveling and learning to others. Whatever your belief is, following it is the best that you could do. Ultimately you have to answer to yourself & be able to live with yourself. Personally, living selfishly, while it maximizes certain things simply goes against my core beliefs. I don't necessarily know that living less selfishly is necessarily better. But for me, it is. Your beliefs, may defy logic, and may not necessarily maximize legacy, wealth or whatever, but in having acted you will have done your best given the situation to be able to live with yourself, which is all you can ask of yourself.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#126
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His death made the front page of the BBC website.

AFAIK it didn't on bbc.co.uk. Perhaps bbc.com but I don't look at that. It's all about FIFA bribes and rollercoaster accidents.

He died a month ago, so I don't know why you are mentioning the headlines of the last few days.

A quick google search reveals a bbc.co.uk news story about the death.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#127
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be an unbelievably horrible person. Please leave HN and never come back.

Whilst I also think the parent comment is callous and stupid, I don't think your comment is called for.

HN is a great community, with smart comments and good people.

It will only stay that way if people call out bad behavior.

Especially in a case like this where someone made an account just to post such a nasty comment.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#128
post #110
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A human being died and another human being went through grief and wrote a moving post about her journey. Do you really need to apply (what I'm sensing to be) pejorative labels to it? Death may not be your typical HN fare, but it is a subject that touches all of us eventually, so far with no exception. I am glad that she was willing to write this and share it. My life is richer for having read it.

I don't think the parent was trying to apply pejorative labels or there was any malicious intent behind their post. It was more along the lines of being unable to parse the title, IMO. It's also good practice to critically examine any written piece, regardless of whom it may come from. While you may derive aesthetic and ostensibly emotional value from it, not everybody may necessarily feel that way. In fact, my life…

> It's also good practice to critically examine any written piece, regardless of whom it may come from. While you may derive aesthetic and ostensibly emotional value from it, not everybody may necessarily feel that way.

That's an interesting assertion, and itself worth examining critically. Is it generally good practice to critically examine any written piece? Possibly. Probably even. Is it always good practice? Perhaps even that is true. Is it always good practice to state the outcome of your critical examination in public? At this point, if your answer is still yes, we diverge. There's a time for stating your critical analysis, and a time for keeping it to yourself.

Death is one of those topics where critical analysis is generally unwelcome. To use a slightly extreme but actually fairly relevant analogy, if someone very close to you died and you were mourning them at their funeral a few days later, and someone there presents you with some kind of critical theory of the chemical nature of grief, while it might appear to be some critical analysis of the present moment it would nevertheless be most unwelcome.

Which brings me to your second point:

> In fact, my life wasn't changed or impacted in any profound sense after reading this. You should keep in mind that not everyone may think the same way as you, or even share the same reality.

There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you can tell fairly easily from the comments that other people were moved by this post. In some, it has brought up feelings of grief that they wished to share too. In effect, the original post by Sheryl Sandberg has made this thread a place of grief for many of the commenters here.

They will have come to it from many places, both real and imagined. For me it is imagining how I would feel if my wife died, or how she might feel if I died. For others it is remembering the death of a loved one. Either way, what they express is real and deeply felt.

I think this "promotes" this thread to a place of grief, and as a human being who respects other humans' right to such places, it is reasonable to keep your critical evaluations to yourself in such a place. There are other places to express your critical views of this. Yes, you have a right to express them here if you wish, but you should also be aware of the implicit request to let this space be what it is.

I know this is the internet and so expecting people to respect other people's feelings is somewhat extraordinary here, but I guess I have a high opinion of humanity in general.

Re: Today is the end of sheloshim for my beloved husband

#129
post #3

Paul Buchheit wrote a wonderful post, after similar circumstances, that I often re-read: > On a more practical level, what matters most in our day-to-day lives is that we're good to ourselves and to each other. It's actually not possible to only do one or the other -- we must do both or neither, but that's a topic for another time. Sometimes, when I write about startups or other interests of mine, I worry that perhap…

Investing money, creating new products, and all the other things we do are wonderful games and can be a lot of fun, but it's important to remember that it's all just a game. I feel like this sentiment is very common, but is implicitly stating that all of the other things, family, friends, personal health etc... are not games - when I don't see why that would be the case. Nothing distinguishes those things for me. Cre…

You think Steve Jobs lived a meaningful life because he sold some fucking electronic toys to rich people? You really think that's what matters?
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