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Let Snowden Come Home

newyorker.com

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Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#31

Post by shit_parade2 »

rosser wrote: post #10
herbig wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote you're referring to is "The new legislation, while it is commendable as far as it goes, contains some obvious shortcomings."

But the full quote would mitigate the raging hate-on the grandparent is sporting. Yes, the USA Freedom Act is limited. Yes, it doesn't change all the things we'd all like to see changed. "The perfect is the enemy of the good." It's at least movement in the right direction. Let's try celebrating that, instead of (or at least along with) bitching that it's not movement far enough .

And bad is brother of worse.

Slogans are easy, what's hard is recognizing the difference between political theater and meaningful change.

America is tumbling into the abyss of tyranny and people celebrate.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#32

Post by MrZongle2 »

bitwarrior wrote: post #9

Only a presidential pardon will really suffice to come home without threat of arrest. It may very well happen posthumously, but that of course wouldn't be too useful to him by then.

A presidential pardon for Snowden won't come from the current occupant of the White House, and by the looks of the candidates so far he'll likely be waiting at least until 2020.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#33

Post by higherpurpose »

Someone1234 wrote: post #21
fourply wrote: post #2

It is infuriating to see SO many articles, even from publications that can usually be trusted, referring to this legislation as "commendable" or "significant reform". It is far from it, and we can't expect the couch-dwellers to pay attention while the dying gasps of the 4th estate trumpet this kind of non-change.

And let's assume for a second that they did introduce actual reform. All that would happen is that they would go back to pre-9/11 spying on Americans. Let me explain how that worked... So pre-9/11 the NSA wasn't allowed to spy on Americans (in most cases), so instead they paid the UK's GCHQ to spy on Americans for them and then relayed the intelligence to the NSA for analysis. This was and still is a perfectly legal…

That's why such reforms need to be accompanied by appropriate reductions in NSA's budget. If the NSA required $5 billion a year to sustain the bulk collection of phone metadata of most Americans, then its budget should be cut by $5 billion, if it's now supposedly "ended".

If the budget remains the same or even increases the following year, then clearly something is not right there and the NSA will just use that money to "keep" the program in some other place and through some other methods.

Unfortunately, since the "Defund the NSA" bill that almost passed the House after the first Snowden revelations, I haven't seen any discussion about doing that. The civil liberties organizations should've pushed for a similar law within 3 months afterwards and ensure it passes then.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#34

Post by eli »

nickbauman wrote: post #28
eli wrote: post #11

Perhaps a minority opinion, but I believe the NSA vastly overstepped and that they need to be reined in (much further than what the USA Freedom Act contains)... but also that Snowden probably should face charges. Snowden is charged with "willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person," which -- I think sensibly -- is illegal even if the unauthorized person is a r…

I would agree with you as long as we also indict members of the US state security apparatus in VA and DC and around the world who authorized these programs as well. I'm not holding my breath.

At the least, I think Clapper should be investigated for perjury over lying to Congress.

But the fact that other criminal acts are going unpunished doesn't really have any bearing on Snowden's case. The crime Snowden is charged with is the same regardless of who else is charged.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#35

Post by fourply »

austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

Well, nobody seemed to care about the potential renewal of section 215, so...

Burn it all and start over, I say :)

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#36

Post by ipsin »

fourply wrote: post #2

It is infuriating to see SO many articles, even from publications that can usually be trusted, referring to this legislation as "commendable" or "significant reform". It is far from it, and we can't expect the couch-dwellers to pay attention while the dying gasps of the 4th estate trumpet this kind of non-change.

The USA Today headline was "NSA Data Collection Ended". I don't even know what to do with something so far from the truth.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#37

Post by [deleted] »

hueving wrote: post #24
austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

>I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. All 12 of us would be fired up! More seriously, did you see the bit on John Oliver about Snowden? The majority of the US population have no idea who Snowden is. Be careful not to get caught up in our tech news bubble.

[deleted]

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#38

Post by adam74 »

> Michael Morell, a top C.I.A. official, called it “the most serious compromise of classified information in the history of the U.S. intelligence community”

Well, I'm sure if they had respected our right to privacy, Snowden would have respected theirs.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#39

Post by sixQuarks »

crxgames wrote: post #26
mhurron wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect you would be severely disappointed.

Yep. News will be full of stories about Bruce Jenner's new tit job.

The sad thing is that most people in America know more about Bruce Jenner then they do Snowden.
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