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Let Snowden Come Home

newyorker.com

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Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#21

Post by Someone1234 »

fourply wrote: post #2

It is infuriating to see SO many articles, even from publications that can usually be trusted, referring to this legislation as "commendable" or "significant reform". It is far from it, and we can't expect the couch-dwellers to pay attention while the dying gasps of the 4th estate trumpet this kind of non-change.

And let's assume for a second that they did introduce actual reform. All that would happen is that they would go back to pre-9/11 spying on Americans. Let me explain how that worked...

So pre-9/11 the NSA wasn't allowed to spy on Americans (in most cases), so instead they paid the UK's GCHQ to spy on Americans for them and then relayed the intelligence to the NSA for analysis. This was and still is a perfectly legal loophole. There are no limits on cooperation with other intelligence agencies. When 9/11 happened the NSA got effectively a blank cheque and asked to increase intelligence gathering significantly, so instead of continuing the GCHQ misdirection they simply expanded spying within the US and then legalised it (via executive order at the time, law later).

So the NSA was spying on Americans in the 1990s, they just had to do more legal maneuvering to do it. It just got significantly worse in the 2000s and they dropped even pretending that they weren't. Even if a stronger law outlawed spying on Americans, you'd just see them go back to the GCHQ way.

PS - A lot of Americans seem to want the NSA spying on "foreigners" without realising that that effectively opens the door to the NSA spying on Americans. That way a call between a US citizen and anyone from abroad can be listened in on.

PPS - Don't even get me started on the NSA's spying on behalf of US corporations, that's a whole other can of worms.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#22

Post by eli »

task_queue wrote: post #8

Let's not kid ourselves, he will get the Manning treatment for the trouble he's caused.

Manning was a solider and subject to (harsh) military law. Snowden is a civilian and charged in a regular federal court in Virginia.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#23

Post by mhurron »

austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

I would expect you would be severely disappointed.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#24

Post by hueving »

austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

>I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release.

All 12 of us would be fired up! More seriously, did you see the bit on John Oliver about Snowden? The majority of the US population have no idea who Snowden is. Be careful not to get caught up in our tech news bubble.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#25

Post by fourply »

rosser wrote: post #10
herbig wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote you're referring to is "The new legislation, while it is commendable as far as it goes, contains some obvious shortcomings."

But the full quote would mitigate the raging hate-on the grandparent is sporting. Yes, the USA Freedom Act is limited. Yes, it doesn't change all the things we'd all like to see changed. "The perfect is the enemy of the good." It's at least movement in the right direction. Let's try celebrating that, instead of (or at least along with) bitching that it's not movement far enough .

It's unconstitutional. Of course I have a raging hate-on - I believe in the rule of law.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#26

Post by crxgames »

mhurron wrote: post #23
austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

I would expect you would be severely disappointed.

Yep. News will be full of stories about Bruce Jenner's new tit job.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#27

Post by lamuerteflaca »

austinhutch wrote: post #6

If he were to come back to the USA and then subsequently be detained, I would join the hopefully overwhelming protests in favor of his release. I am hoping if such a time comes, that there will be a historic level of demonstration advocating for his freedom.

The cynic in me tells me that instead people will be calling for his head.

Re: Let Snowden Come Home

#28

Post by nickbauman »

eli wrote: post #11

Perhaps a minority opinion, but I believe the NSA vastly overstepped and that they need to be reined in (much further than what the USA Freedom Act contains)... but also that Snowden probably should face charges. Snowden is charged with "willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person," which -- I think sensibly -- is illegal even if the unauthorized person is a r…

I would agree with you as long as we also indict members of the US state security apparatus in VA and DC and around the world who authorized these programs as well. I'm not holding my breath.
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