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Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

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Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#31

Post by throwaway_coz »

Yup, posting under throwaway because I don't want the downvotes.

Here's my take from interacting with Iranians(ones that grew up in Iran or maybe didn't go to college in the US): they have a chip on their shoulder about western influence and a scarily misogynistic stance( note though, they are, by and large, not religious). Sure, they dress like westerner/hipsters but they still have a weird mix of superiority/inferiority complex.

Am I saying Iranian people are bad/evil? No. I am saying that being brainwashed from a young age, being taught to think and act a certain way doesn't change overnight or even a generation. This generation is, if they are anything more than acting out the normal teenager rebelliousness, going to be the same as the last in all aspects that matter.

And, acting like this isn't the case isn't going to make the problem go away.

Also, since when is being westernized normal?

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#32

Post by guard-of-terra »

throwaway_coz wrote: post #31

Yup, posting under throwaway because I don't want the downvotes. Here's my take from interacting with Iranians(ones that grew up in Iran or maybe didn't go to college in the US): they have a chip on their shoulder about western influence and a scarily misogynistic stance( note though, they are, by and large, not religious). Sure, they dress like westerner/hipsters but they still have a weird mix of superiority/inferi…

"since when is being westernized normal"

You are either western or you are "mumbo-jumbo" aboriginal wildling. There is no third way.

"Westernized" is denigrating btw. What you should be is 'civilized'. We've got only one civilization worth its name today.

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#33

Post by throwaway_coz »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #32
throwaway_coz wrote: post #31

Yup, posting under throwaway because I don't want the downvotes. Here's my take from interacting with Iranians(ones that grew up in Iran or maybe didn't go to college in the US): they have a chip on their shoulder about western influence and a scarily misogynistic stance( note though, they are, by and large, not religious). Sure, they dress like westerner/hipsters but they still have a weird mix of superiority/inferi…

"since when is being westernized normal" You are either western or you are "mumbo-jumbo" aboriginal wildling. There is no third way. "Westernized" is denigrating btw. What you should be is 'civilized'. We've got only one civilization worth its name today.

"westernized" is supposed to be denigrating. Thats what I call people who wear hipster clothes but are still misogynistic bastards :) Being westernized means eating your big mac but acting in a backward manner.

Now, being civilized is different than being westernized.

Why? Because roots are important and the melting pot of globalization needs to melt more than one direction and in more facets than just cuisine :)

Oh yeah, what "is the one civilization worth its name today"?

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#34

Post by guard-of-terra »

throwaway_coz wrote: post #33
guard-of-terra wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"since when is being westernized normal" You are either western or you are "mumbo-jumbo" aboriginal wildling. There is no third way. "Westernized" is denigrating btw. What you should be is 'civilized'. We've got only one civilization worth its name today.

"westernized" is supposed to be denigrating. Thats what I call people who wear hipster clothes but are still misogynistic bastards :) Being westernized means eating your big mac but acting in a backward manner. Now, being civilized is different than being westernized. Why? Because roots are important and the melting pot of globalization needs to melt more than one direction and in more facets than just cuisine :) Oh…

You're a very enlightened person indeed, I sincerely wonder why all the downvotes.

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#35

Post by Balgair »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #27
Balgair wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is usually why revolutions occur during times of famine. When they can't even feed your kids, then you have no choice but to seek 'radical' options.

It's a a sad truth that a single famine or economic depression can turn your whole life to risk-aversion and only valuing physical security. You'll effectively ruin your life, next gen life, probably more. You survived but you died inside, like a zombie apocalypse.

Thats the opposite of what I said; that a famine causes you to loose risk aversion and thoughts of security. You go for whatever you can see as best, regardless of the consequences.

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#36

Post by throwaway_coz »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #34
throwaway_coz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"westernized" is supposed to be denigrating. Thats what I call people who wear hipster clothes but are still misogynistic bastards :) Being westernized means eating your big mac but acting in a backward manner. Now, being civilized is different than being westernized. Why? Because roots are important and the melting pot of globalization needs to melt more than one direction and in more facets than just cuisine :) Oh…

You're a very enlightened person indeed, I sincerely wonder why all the downvotes.

Sarcasm? Can't tell, but I agree.

Regardless, enlightenment is not a function of downvotes or upvotes[0]. It's definitely not thinking everyone is equal/good/civilized/uncivilized/whatever: that's political correctness.

[0] I bet most of the downvoters haven't interacted in any way with cultures other than their own. They've maybe met a few american-iranian kids and decided that's a close enough approximation of actual Iranians. It's not.

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#38

Post by smnrchrds »

emilsedgh wrote: post #8

Foreign reporters visiting Iran are usually in an echo chamber. They visit Tehran and a few other big cities. Live in best parts of those towns and hang out with people who are educated and pro western and quite exposed to other cultures. Iranian middle class (and specially the younger generation which are the majority) are pro western, quite progressive and modern. But they don't represent the whole population of Ir…

Oops, sorry Emil. Didn't notice your username the first time. I'm an Iranian studying abroad. I respectfully disagree with your conclusions, but the stress is on "respectfully".

Keep up your good work!

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#39

Post by dmix »

616c wrote: post #29
dmix wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran has been isolationist and authoritarian forever, since the beginning of its history centuries ago. The persians held onto their obsession with religious leaders and sharia courts well after the vast majority of the middle east moved on. Even during Ottoman muslim rule where sharia and strictly religious leaders were semi-tolerated there was very little compromise in Iran. I'm not saying America was right, I'm ag…

What is your source? http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-External... This "Iran has been this way" bullshit is the same nonsense I called out in a previous article about how Hezbollah is some Iranian cleric + Syrian Asad backdoor meeting became a movement BS. Iran's history is more complex than that. TL;DR Iran was not Shi'a, it became Shi'a, for political and politicized reasons, and was racheted up…

I recently read a book on the history of the middle east [1]. Pretty much every reference to Iran in the last thousand years was to how they are still isolationist and clung onto their religious leaders while other parts of the middle east made progress (politically, economic, and otherwise).

There were moments of greatness in Persian history no doubt, and even Afghanistan became a Persian cultural center. But the later history, post middle ages set a pretty strong pattern that hasnt seemed to have changed.

I'm planning to read more on the subject, particularily a book about the history of Shia [2]. I'm not calling myself a total expert on the subject. I'm open to be convinced otherwise...

[1] http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Fourth/dp/01431219...

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Shia-Revival-Conflicts-within-Future-e...

Re: Iran’s ‘Generation Normal’

#40

Post by 616c »

dmix wrote: post #39
616c wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your source? http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Without-Allah-Religious-External... This "Iran has been this way" bullshit is the same nonsense I called out in a previous article about how Hezbollah is some Iranian cleric + Syrian Asad backdoor meeting became a movement BS. Iran's history is more complex than that. TL;DR Iran was not Shi'a, it became Shi'a, for political and politicized reasons, and was racheted up…

I recently read a book on the history of the middle east [1]. Pretty much every reference to Iran in the last thousand years was to how they are still isolationist and clung onto their religious leaders while other parts of the middle east made progress (politically, economic, and otherwise). There were moments of greatness in Persian history no doubt, and even Afghanistan became a Persian cultural center. But the la…

I avoid the journo turns historian books like [1], but I will have to check out [2]. When I took a clas in Shi'a history, Vali Nasr wrote a lot of material cited in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_Nasr

I am never quite sure if I like him, because of his seemingly packaged for Western consumption views of Iran in his books.

But then again, I am hardly an expert, and hardly Iranian. I just think Iran transitioned in and out of phases, and its interaction culturally with the Abbasid Empire at one point and wars fought in the region makes me see them differently. My interpretation is probably just biased.

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