Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors • Hacker News Board

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#21

Post by lordnacho » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #7

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

This is called multiple language norms. English is "virtually" a lot of languages.

Or dialects and vocabularies. And at least to me (non-native speaker), the most difficult dialects are English. I mean, accents from England. I can usually understand very well people who come from the Indian subcontinent, or China, or Africa... but Manchester? Liverpool? Northern English dialects perhaps sound funny but for me they are not that hard, despite some describing the Newcastle accent as most difficult.

The interesting thing about English in England is class. You know someone went to an expensive boarding school if they speak a certain way. Or, if they come from a place with a strong regional accent, whether they went to private day school.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#22

Post by eitally » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #15

getsat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's more specific... like a person from the "southern" USA meeting someone from Wales? They'd have quite a hard time understanding each other.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure someone from South Carolina would be able to understand the average Welshperson (or anyone in the UK or Ireland)

You're not correct. There are accents strong enough in both SC and the UK to befuddle the other. Heck, even within SC it'd be hard for some northern transplants to understand rural drawls, and within the UK it's not unknown for Londoners to wonder at Glaswegians (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Tj7eezFJ8).

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#23

Post by engi_nerd » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:11 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #15

getsat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's more specific... like a person from the "southern" USA meeting someone from Wales? They'd have quite a hard time understanding each other.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure someone from South Carolina would be able to understand the average Welshperson (or anyone in the UK or Ireland)

I don't know about that. I had difficulty understanding people from different parts of my own home state (Kentucky). I grew up in the Louisville area, and had difficulty understanding people from the eastern part of the state.

I have also had severe difficulty understanding some of my wife's family, who are from Maine.

And now I work with many people from the UK. I tend to find that if the person is from the south, I have few problems understanding them. The further north someone is from, the more difficulty I have with them. Some of my Scottish coworkers are, for me, almost impossible to understand.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#24

Post by panglott » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

teh_klev wrote: post #8

ptaipale wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or dialects and vocabularies. And at least to me (non-native speaker), the most difficult dialects are English. I mean, accents from England. I can usually understand very well people who come from the Indian subcontinent, or China, or Africa... but Manchester? Liverpool? Northern English dialects perhaps sound funny but for me they are not that hard, despite some describing the Newcastle accent as most difficult.

I'm a Scot and as a child was brought up, until around ten years old, in rural north east Scotland. The local tongue around those parts was heavily influenced by Doric [0] (this was the 1970's - we didn't see many "incomers" :) ). When our family moved to the central belt (Perthshire) no-one in primary school could fully understand half the things I said. I had to learn how to "speak properly" as one fairly unpleasan…

Scots is an amazing language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0EwquC6wBU

Though it seems like Scots is so overwhelmed by British Standard English to exist more on a creole continuum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-creole_continuum

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#25

Post by scott_s » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

The Amana Colonies in Iowa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies) was settled by Germans, and many continue to speak German. A friend of mine is a professor at the University of Iowa, and a colleague of his grew up speaking German. But, much of her diction sounded quaint to German speakers in Germany; the word she used for "airplane" was closer to the word "dirigible".

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#26

Post by stephengillie » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:21 PM UTC

nashashmi wrote: post #18

I find it interesting the kinds of things one can learn from two countries that are nearly identical, but one is in isolation and the other is not. That being said, the North Koreans who defect should not feel so embarrassed about their style of speaking. It is unique and appreciable. Hell with the comedians. Just be a good sport and a laugh along. People laugh at others when they find themselves are weak.

How was it for East Berliners and West Berliners right after the Wall fell? Didn't they have to deal with vocabulary differences as well?

I'd assume that those vocabulary differences have basically disappeared in the decades since, but I've never been there nor studied German. Thoughts?

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#27

Post by SloopJon » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #15

getsat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's more specific... like a person from the "southern" USA meeting someone from Wales? They'd have quite a hard time understanding each other.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure someone from South Carolina would be able to understand the average Welshperson (or anyone in the UK or Ireland)

Years after they left Georgia, my parents still liked to tell us about the time they were introduced to bald eggs: the third time the waiter asked very slowly, "Would you like some boiled eggs?"

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#28

Post by alanctgardner3 » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #25

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

The Amana Colonies in Iowa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies ) was settled by Germans, and many continue to speak German. A friend of mine is a professor at the University of Iowa, and a colleague of his grew up speaking German. But, much of her diction sounded quaint to German speakers in Germany; the word she used for "airplane" was closer to the word "dirigible".

French in Quebec is kind of similar - to avoid being assimilated into English Canadian culture, it's very resistant to change. French speakers from Europe tend to find it kind of quaint because it's been developing independently since the 1700s.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#29

Post by mason240 » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:30 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #17

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the small fact that the North is a totalitarian shithole.

100% Chinese sponsored totalitarian sh*thole. Yet the world keeps supporting China.

China is not happy with current situation either.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#30

Post by dilap » Mon, Jun 01, 2015, 2:31 PM UTC

antjanus wrote: post #16

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

I'm Czech and I can attest to something similar in my country with its measly 10 million people. There's a Bohemian and a Moravian/Silesian dialect. Bohemia is part of the country where Prague is and with that dialect, you can fare very well all over the country. You'll stick out, and sound downright silly in the depths of Moravia, but you'll be fine. I can't ever remember not being able to understand a Bohemian simp…

This reminds me of the Scottish english accent. It's pretty cool sounding (to my west-coast US ears), but a thick Scottish accent can be quite tricky to understand.