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Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

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Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#11

Post by cageface »

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

I've been living in Vietnam for the last four years and there's a huge difference in dialects from southern, central and northern Vietnam. People from the center in particular are often unintelligible even to other Vietnamese. It's a treacherous enough language already since getting a tone wrong can mean you're unintentionally saying something quite vulgar.

Luckily the Vietnamese will almost always give foreigners a pass for making these kinds of mistakes and they're happy that you're even make an effort to learn their language.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#12

Post by ubernostrum »

getsat wrote: post #9
QuercusMax wrote: post #3

The article title is misleading. From the actual content of the article, there's some differences in accent (and maybe sentence structure?), which can lead to social issues for defectors, but the real issue seems to be vocabulary. So really it's no different from American English vs British English, except the North Koreans have been cut off from contact with the South.

Maybe it's more specific... like a person from the "southern" USA meeting someone from Wales? They'd have quite a hard time understanding each other.

There's more to it than that.

Some English dialects/accents are historically associated with lower-class people, or people perceived to be stupider/lazier/etc. Which creates all sorts of impressions on another person from the instant you open your mouth.

Many southern US accents have these kinds of connotations, for example, to such an extent that A) a lot of people won't take you seriously if you have such an accent and B) I'm glad mine got drilled out of me as a side effect of correcting for a lisp when I was a child.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#13

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

ck2 wrote: post #10

I hope to live long enough to see North and South Korea unified like East/West Germany. But somehow I suspect it is going to be a lot harder for that to happen given the nuclear weapons involved and then learning how southern look down on northern folks.

And the small fact that the North is a totalitarian shithole.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#14

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

QuercusMax wrote: post #3

The article title is misleading. From the actual content of the article, there's some differences in accent (and maybe sentence structure?), which can lead to social issues for defectors, but the real issue seems to be vocabulary. So really it's no different from American English vs British English, except the North Koreans have been cut off from contact with the South.

I agree, I graduated from the Korean Basic Course at DLI, and from what I remember, the main differences between North and South are not that insurmountable from a language perspective. Not having foreign loan words and using more pure Korean (as opposed to Sino Korean) words are the biggest differences. Certainly doesn't make them unintelligible to each other.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#15

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

getsat wrote: post #9
QuercusMax wrote: post #3

The article title is misleading. From the actual content of the article, there's some differences in accent (and maybe sentence structure?), which can lead to social issues for defectors, but the real issue seems to be vocabulary. So really it's no different from American English vs British English, except the North Koreans have been cut off from contact with the South.

Maybe it's more specific... like a person from the "southern" USA meeting someone from Wales? They'd have quite a hard time understanding each other.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure someone from South Carolina would be able to understand the average Welshperson (or anyone in the UK or Ireland)

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#16

Post by antjanus »

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

I'm Czech and I can attest to something similar in my country with its measly 10 million people. There's a Bohemian and a Moravian/Silesian dialect.

Bohemia is part of the country where Prague is and with that dialect, you can fare very well all over the country. You'll stick out, and sound downright silly in the depths of Moravia, but you'll be fine. I can't ever remember not being able to understand a Bohemian simply because most TV shows are dubbed by Bohemians.

But if you're a Moravian (like me), you'll be quite unlucky in the rest of the country. Moravians speak quite quickly and in a deep voice. The language in the thick of it is nearly impossible to understand. There's nothing offensive about it, it just sounds like garbage to any person that speaks the proper Czech language.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#17

Post by ck2 »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #13
ck2 wrote: post #10

I hope to live long enough to see North and South Korea unified like East/West Germany. But somehow I suspect it is going to be a lot harder for that to happen given the nuclear weapons involved and then learning how southern look down on northern folks.

And the small fact that the North is a totalitarian shithole.

100% Chinese sponsored totalitarian sh*thole.

Yet the world keeps supporting China.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#18

Post by nashashmi »

I find it interesting the kinds of things one can learn from two countries that are nearly identical, but one is in isolation and the other is not.

That being said, the North Koreans who defect should not feel so embarrassed about their style of speaking. It is unique and appreciable. Hell with the comedians. Just be a good sport and a laugh along. People laugh at others when they find themselves are weak.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#19

Post by kuschku »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #13
ck2 wrote: post #10

I hope to live long enough to see North and South Korea unified like East/West Germany. But somehow I suspect it is going to be a lot harder for that to happen given the nuclear weapons involved and then learning how southern look down on northern folks.

And the small fact that the North is a totalitarian shithole.

East Germany was also not a great place – the largest domestic intelligence agency ever, everyone spying on each other, a totalitarian regime, a wall so that no one could flee, food was there, but you had no bananas, no chocolate, or any other expensive food.

All in all, if one sees it objectively, east germany wasn’t /that/ different from North Korea.

Re: Korean is virtually two languages, which is a problem for North Korean defectors

#20

Post by lordnacho »

616c wrote: post #5

I cannot say I am surprised. I could talk about Arabic almost every time I comment here. That get's boring. Let's move to Vietnamese. So one of the coolest co-workers my father had was a recon pilot during the Viewnam War. Not doing the high altitude picture stuff, but SIGINT and comm monitoring over the radio stuff. He volunteered and went to Nam for the Navy. He was sent to schools stateside to study Vietnamese fir…

This is interesting. My parents grew up in the north, so I understand when they speak.

The thing is, even if I'm not very good at it and I've never even been there, I can tell what part of Vietnam someone is from. It seems the southern dialect is very easily distinguished from the northern one.

It makes a difference to the diaspora people because it gives you an idea of whether you're of similar background. The exodus seems to have had different stages and groups (eg people who left with the Americans vs Hoa who left a few years later).

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