“We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.” • Hacker News Board

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#151

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:02 PM UTC

ironsides wrote: post #61

innguest wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you hosting your own email server?

and if you are rolling your own are you having any issues with spf or spam flags?

I run my email server (it actually does not provide any extra privacy, as it's on a linode), and 99% of the time, no, I don't have problems with spf and spam flags. (In fact, spf is great, I don't get the blame of sending spam anymore since I've set it.)

There's an odd email server here and there that suspects anything that isn't gmail, there was even a mail server once that required me to prove I exist, but those are very few, and normally single user installations.

The secret is that besides not sending spam, you must receive email. If you don't get enough email, other servers start suspecting you. And, of course, there are configuration problems - since I'm writing my own mail server, I get a few of them, but even on standard software you have to make sure you set it correctly.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#152

Post by FlaceBook » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #127

FlaceBook wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a disruptive synergistic cloud experience!

You mean it's a disruptive synergistic cloud experience offer! There seems to be some kind of institutional mental illness that forces corps to think of users as exploitable prey who can be herded down a value-extracting marketing funnel, and not as people who want a service. It's disturbingly common, IME.

You mean a 'transformative' disruptive synergistic cloud experience offer?

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#153

Post by copsarebastards » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

FlaceBook wrote: post #73

fny wrote: post #42

Raise your hand if you feel like this is an unwarranted breach of privacy, but you have a gmail account and heavily depend on Google services. Raises own hand. I was so trusting and willing to give away my emails to Google when I was a kid (despite being fully aware of their intentions), but now, even though privacy infringements from all these other companies disturb me, I'm still a hypocritical sheep in Google's he…

I have around 10 gmail accounts, each of which only receives random junk from various sites and mailing lists. I create compressed, encrypted archives that contain only random data, and use them to fill my "drive". Google is welcome to analyze as much of that as they want.

That's just slacktivism.

Google is quite capable of detecting and ignoring chaff, and they wouldn't be giving away free space if they couldn't afford to host a small number of people doing stuff like you're doing.

Further, if you think that behavior doesn't contain any data about you, you're wrong. They can extrapolate from that behavior that you're interested in privacy and have some technical understanding of the problems with corporate surveillance. You've almost certainly received targeted ads for computer products, particularly stuff like Lenovo or Yubikeys, which are popular in security-conscious crowds. You may have ad-blocked these ads, but you've probably been tracked anyway, even if you used something to block trackers.

Right now you're totally ineffectual. If you want to actually do something, you should write your senators and stop using Google products entirely.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#154

Post by brettcvz » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

I would say it's safe to assume many, many apps do this. For anyone looking to tailor ads/recommendations to their users, the opportunity to peek at all the apps you have installed is too tempting to resist.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#155

Post by Animats » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

timthorn wrote: post #108

cm2187 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me that's even worse. You are stuck with your ISP. What if you move home to a place where this ISP isn't available? There are commercial email providers in jurisdictions that do respect privacy. And it usually only costs the price of a couple of coffees per year.

You're not locked in if you own the DNS registration.

Right. I have several domains, and my email comes in via them. The IMAP server just aggregates them.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#156

Post by FlaceBook » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

copsarebastards wrote: post #153

FlaceBook wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have around 10 gmail accounts, each of which only receives random junk from various sites and mailing lists. I create compressed, encrypted archives that contain only random data, and use them to fill my "drive". Google is welcome to analyze as much of that as they want.

That's just slacktivism. Google is quite capable of detecting and ignoring chaff, and they wouldn't be giving away free space if they couldn't afford to host a small number of people doing stuff like you're doing. Further, if you think that behavior doesn't contain any data about you, you're wrong. They can extrapolate from that behavior that you're interested in privacy and have some technical understanding of the p…

You make many assumptions.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#157

Post by copsarebastards » Sat, May 30, 2015, 6:43 PM UTC

FlaceBook wrote: post #156

copsarebastards wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just slacktivism. Google is quite capable of detecting and ignoring chaff, and they wouldn't be giving away free space if they couldn't afford to host a small number of people doing stuff like you're doing. Further, if you think that behavior doesn't contain any data about you, you're wrong. They can extrapolate from that behavior that you're interested in privacy and have some technical understanding of the p…

You make many assumptions.

That's not a very convincing counterargument if you don't say what assumptions you think I'm making.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#158

Post by zxyzzxxx » Sat, May 30, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #138

zxyzzxxx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people it is just search and email. Replacing email is easy, but search is harder since only Google has really accurate and relevant results( besides other giants that also snoop ). The best way to replace search is to use engines that respect privacy and if you need relevant results, those that convey Google's results to you.

For me it's waaay more than just that. Email, search, stock Android, DNS, browser, texts, phone calls, GPS, calendar, tasks, file storage, music, stocks, and certainly more that I'm forgetting. The most absurd bit is that, since I use stock Android, Google knows exactly what I've installed and even monitored my behavior while using their app store, and yet I get so irked by Twitter getting a list too. It's like I've…

You can always start collecting it back.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#159

Post by mgraczyk » Sat, May 30, 2015, 7:50 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #147

mgraczyk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> despite being fully aware of their intentions Those being....? Google earns its revenue by selling ads. They make more money when they show you ads that are likely to earn your business for the advertiser. Is it really so horrendous for Google to use information about you to show you ads for products you are more likely to purchase? Or are you concerned about something else?

That was my though exactly when I started, but I've realized that Google gains a greater power than showing tailored ads. Google remembers who I was better than I do, knows everything that I do today, and can probably guess who I will become. They have the power to shape the information I see and influence me to do things that will drive their bottom line with unparalleled precision. We're really giving Google the po…

I'm a little biased because I currently work at Google (not on anything related to ads or user data).

Still, I am comfortable with giving Google enough information to understand and predict my behavior. The more I learn about the company from the inside, the more I trust them to do the right thing with my personal information to prioritize my quality of life over their bottom line. My perception is that Google genuinely believes that if they create high quality products that improve their user's lives, the revenue will follow.

As for centralization, I agree that it is good to diversify for robustness and security. Still I trust Google's security measures more than I would trust my own if I were to set up email servers myself. Plus now that Google properties have U2F support and Chrome autogenerates passwords, I don't mind putting all my security eggs in the Google basket.

Re: “We are only collecting the list of applications you have installed.”

#160

Post by spc476 » Sat, May 30, 2015, 7:55 PM UTC

JimDabell wrote: post #129

spc476 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run my own email server [1] using Postfix. I use greylisting [2][3] and it easily stops 50% of all spam. I looked into adding SPF, but decided against it as the effective rate was too low [4]. I've also recently looked at RBL [5] and while there were a few false positives (enough that I decided against immediately adding it) what it did catch was quite impressive [6]. Oddly enough, if I simply drop email addressed…

I think ironsides was referring to sending email, not receiving it. Sending email from a mail server without a good reputation can often land your email in spam filters these days. It's all very well saying that the amount of spam you get is manageable, but that doesn't really matter if your own outgoing email becomes unreliable because you aren't using a recognised provider.

That's not much of a concern for me. My email server also handles outgoing email as well. I'm fortunate in that I've been running my own server on that domain since 1998. And on the current IP address for probably a decade by now.

Over the years, there have been only two domains where my email had issues being delivered: AOL [1] and Google mail. For AOL, I had to inform AOL that I was responsible for the IP address of my server and promise not to send spam and that I take care of any spams from my IP address, etc. Annoying, but once done, no issues. Google on the other hand ...

I've had a few times where my email was being dropped by Google mail. Annoying, but the issues did seem to clear up on its own after time. I do have a gmail account [2] that I use for testing when I think there are issues but I don't recall the last time I had one. But I have had them.

[1] My dad is still on AOL.

[2] Google's spam catching ability isn't 100% either. I don't use gmail at all for email, so anything I get there is either 1) a mistake because someone is trying to email a person with my name at gmail or 2) spam. It's mostly spam [3]

[3] I just checked my gmail account. 140 new messages since I last cleaned it out in mid-October. All spam. Way to go, Google! (but to be fair, it shunted 726 messages to the spam folder).