Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#481

Post by diyorgasms » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:53 AM UTC

mpyne wrote: post #336

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just amazing to me how just alleging something by press release then withdrawing the allegation from the trial is enough to sentence somebody in the mind of the public. Just look at how people here are voting.

It's amazing to me how people can be pointed to literally where in a charging document you can find where the government actually included murder-for-hire as part of the charges against Ulbricht and yet "people here" can still manage to avoid seeing it...

Except presumption of innocence is supposed to be a cornerstone of the american justice system. Until that he hired a killer is proven in a criminal court, we all ought to refrain from making the assumption that such accusations in any way reflect the truth of the matter.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#482

Post by knieveltech » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:58 AM UTC

"We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint..." - Robert Falcon Scott

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#483

Post by olefoo » Sat, May 30, 2015, 4:58 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #457

meaogj wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SR sold drugs, yes. It also sold identity theft kits, credit card fraud kits, hacking tools, and other gear that is meant to harm others through coercion. Fuck Russ, and fuck you for repeating the lie that SR was nothing but drugs.

And more importantly, the guy tried to have people killed. This is not a good prompt for a "war on drugs is evil" rant. I sympathize with the position, but using somebody as an example of supposed injustice, when a big part of his punishment is because he hired hitmen (plural!), is not going to make your point look at all good.

"the guy tried to have people killed", allegedly.

And the alleging being done by someone who is himself in quite a bit of legal trouble for stealing from Silk Road and embezzling bitcoin during the course of his official duties.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#484

Post by mdonahoe » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:03 AM UTC

OceanPowers wrote: post #192

codecamper wrote: post #53

Amazing. Write software, make billions. Write some other software, get life in prison.

specious argumentation. nobody cares about 'software' one way or the other. SR was a 'service' that broke many, many laws.

I don't read this as an argument at all. I read it as a reflection on the power of software.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#485

Post by mdpopescu » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:04 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #269

deweller wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

allegedly tried to have multiple people killed. The prosecution brought this up at trial but he was not charged or convicted of this in the criminal trial.

There was an interesting link posted by tptacek about this - https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391... - where the Court offers their view on this: "As explained above, the murder-for-hire evidence is probative both as evidence of the charged offenses and to prove Ulbricht’s identity as DPR—a key disputed issue in this case. In addition, the charges in this case are extremely serious: Ulbricht i…

He was stopped too soon; if he'd have earned billions he'd have been "too big to fail" and given bail money.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#486

Post by mkramlich » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:10 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #285

zanny wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key point. He is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, pretty much, for running a website. Not for hurting anyone, not for even threatening to kill anyone - those charges weren't a part of his conviction - but simply by enabling the exchange of drugs he apparently should be locked away forever. Go Team 'Murica....

Are you implying drugs don't hurt anyone? Even the most ardent proponent of full legalization usually acknowledges that many drugs are very harmful--they just believe the people should be free to do things even if they are harmful to themselves. I generally support decriminalization or even legalization, but I would be reluctant to allow internet sales. I'd require sales to be through licensed dealers and in person,…

from the historical record I'm pretty sure that the USA gov has caused/allowed more drugs/chemicals/radiation/weapons to cause more harm/deaths to innocent/civilian people than Ross ever has. I don't see any US President or Senator, etc., in jail, because of that.

example: drop tons of Agent Orange on the lands/people of Vietnam? Just an oopsie! and they move on, wipe their hands clean. People dead and children deformed. Oopsie! Our mistake. Next meeting.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#487

Post by Tloewald » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:15 AM UTC

Cantremeber wrote: post #57

drcode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that the "murder for hire" evidence was introduced as part of the trial (at which point Ross' lawyer could have disputed it, but didn't) so it could be used as part of the sentencing decision... and that kind of takes the luster off of the "non-violent crime" argument.

Plus, it happened multiple times. Even if no one was actually killed the guy still tried to have multiple people killed.

The guy he tried to kill was a corrupt law enforcement officer who was stealing from him. If the same trick were deliberately pulled by law enforcement surely the defense could argue entrapment. It's ironic at minimum.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#488

Post by indrax » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:16 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #391

psykovsky wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part where he wanted Curtis Green dead because of a theft of USD$350,000.00 in Bitcoin commited by the dirty undercover DEA agent who he then hired to murder Curtis Green.

You forgot the part where he wanted Curtis Green dead because of a theft of --- not sure why I need to read past this point.

Odd that laws allow for killing to prevent a robbery, but taking a life as punishment is unthinkable.

I wonder: If the money had been gained legally then stolen, what steps could the victim legally take to recover it?

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#489

Post by Natsu » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:22 AM UTC

geetee wrote: post #474

Natsu wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to claim self-defense when your own illegal actions led to the situation. Nor when there isn't an immediate threat to injure you and threatening to expose your illegal actions just isn't going to cut it. You can find further details here: http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=864 It's written by an actual lawyer, in spite of being in comic format.

I didn't mean to imply that it could be considered self-defense according to the letter of the law. Just floating the scenario where you're running a business that, while illegal, is not morally wrong, and you're faced with the possibility of spending the rest of your life behind bars. What do you do?

They would tell you not to run that business because it's illegal. There are legitimate ways to protest a bad law and running an illegal business isn't one of them.

Re: Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison

#490

Post by simoncion » Sat, May 30, 2015, 5:27 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #475

tzs wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars and guns also hurt people but pretty much anyone can sell those When car or gun buying addiction becomes more then a negligible problem, you'll have a terrific point.

So many people were convinced that "Obummer is gunner take r gunz" that they created a bullet shortage that lasted for years. Um, sounds like like addiction to me.

Heh.

It was military hardware that was using those bullets, my friend. :)