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Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

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Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#111
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could get more backers if DRM-free release (for everyone) was a simple part of the base goal. I have to say, prove it. My theory is that most people don't care about DRM the same way you do, and that more people like owning something than want to make it widely accessible, based on the abundant evidence already available about their willingness to buy exclusive rewards. What do you base your assertion about the…

> My theory is that most people don't care about DRM the same way you do It's a common practice for many crowdfunded projects to pitch for more backers by stating that release is DRM-free. You can see people commenting about it, if it's not stated (and projects clarifying this point). Take a look at fiasco with Veronica Mars crowdfunded film which was released with DRM. Backers of the film said all they thought about…

OK, but do you have any numbers to back up the economic side of the argument? I get that it's an ethical issue for you, but you lose me when you talk about 'sick minded publishers,' because different editions with or without DRM are simply what they have available to sell, and they're just allocating to wherever they see the best price.

If Alice will pay $10 for a streaming copy (with DRM), Bob will pay $30 for a DRM-free copy, but Carol will pay $50 for an exclusive DRM-free copy, the rational approach is to sell to Alice and Carol for a total of $60. Bob says that other people would be willing to buy the DRM-free copy later, but from the producer's standpoint the only thing that matters is who's willing to pay money up front because a) there are a lot of costs that have to be paid up front* and b) backend revenue is uncertain.

* Of course you can defray those up-front costs by asking people to work for free or deferred pay, which has been a very popular trend over the last decade. But it's awful to work that way and none of the projects I've ever done that for ever turned a profit.

Unfortunately Kickstarter doesn't provide a way to play the two off against each other, eg setting up 2 projects for DRM advocates vs owners and going with whichever one outraises the others.

Take a look at fiasco with Veronica Mars crowdfunded film which was released with DRM.

I did. I think it was a storm in a teacup, because the intersection between fans of a TV show and people who care passionately about DRM is just not that big. The primary issue seemed to be that people did not care for getting their digital download through Flixster and would rather have redeemed through iTunes or Amazon. As best I can see from the project page, ~22k people were willing to pay a $10 premium over the next reward to get a digital download in addition to a T-shirt, but not another $15 to get a DVD. About 10% of the comments post-release consisted of grumbling about the Flixster download (primarily that it was slow and/or buggy and unreliable; I'm not sure what percentage of them cared about the underlying principle), so it looks like maybe 2500 people who spent about $25,000 were pissed off, or ~4% of the backers contributing 0.5% of the budget.

The basic problem for producers is this: you can estimate the number of people interested in purchasing a restricted version of the film by looking at other projects which offer that and seeing how many of those reward offerings actually sold. I believe you that there are people sitting on the sidelines instead of donating/purchasing because they care about a DRM-free release, but how do I quantify what that demographic is worth?

If I see a project that's interesting to me, I consider supporting it on condition that it doesn't plan to use such unethical garbage as DRM in result. How much would I invest in it? That depends on the project. I don't do it out of having unlimited funds. Not at all - my funds are pretty limited. I do it because I care for those projects and without my support they are less likely to be created.

OK, but your lack of support has to be set against the number of people who are willing to pay for some exclusive right. In the case of Kung Fury that was about $90,000 - ~6000 people were willing to pay $20 for a 1080p download with exclusive content, vs $5 for the DRM-hobbled streaming version you paid for. So what I'm asking is: if you see a film you think you would like, what extra amount are you willing to pay to ensure it is made available DRM-free? It doesn't matter if you'd make a big donation of $1000 once a year to advance the cause, or you'd rather donate and extra $20 to 50 different projects, or even just 5.

But right now I have no idea how much you and other people who care about DRM are holding back. I looked at several different Kickstarter projects that offer DRM-free downloads (including Game Loading - Rise of the Indies, which raised over $60k AUD) doing a similar analysis (trying to ID how much people were willing to contribute for the digital download only, rather than the next reward with additional swag) and the numbers seem to be in the low thousands. Even if I scale budgets the numbers are a good bit lower, eg about $45,000 in DRM-free download purchases if I imagine that other projects had brought in the same overall revenue as Kung Fury and allocate the appropriate amount to download rewards.

This suggests that there's only half as much money on offer up front for DRM-free downloads as for exclusive offerings, and so that it's more rational to use a market segmentation strategy than to offer the same thing at the same price to everyone. From a producer standpoint, cash is the only thing that people are willing to accept as payment for work, and real cash now is much more persuasive than hypothetical cash later.

I mean, maybe you and other anti-DRM people should set up a fund and disburse grants or something, but only to people who commit to DRM-free movie and game releasing. That's how other people promote their causes. Money talks, as they say.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#112
post #105
post #47

Slowly but surely it is becoming possible to "consume" nothing but Internet for entertainment, even if you demand video. It's still got a ways to go. But Hollywood probably ought to be more scared than it is. (Hollywood qua Hollywood isn't necessarily going anywhere, "the best" are always going to congregate somewhere, but the "current regime" is probably going to very shaken up in the next few decades.)

My son used to watch lots of TV at 4, but by 5 he basically stopped in favour of Youtube - mostly things like gameplay videos (Minecraft...). Now he's 6 and I actually can't remember the last time he watched a TV channel..

My daughter has had her own computer since she was two, which is the joy of a techie household full of discards. She watched CBeebies streaming from the website, but has also shifted to Minecraft gameplay videos. (Which are, in all seriousness, what the kids of today have instead of Saturday morning cartoons.) I told her horror stories of how in my day, we had three channels and they only showed stuff when it was on and no other time and you couldn't just play it again. She laughed at our pain.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#113
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard it called Retrowave before (thought that is a good name for it). I know it by the names Outrun or Synthwave. Carpenter Brut, Perturbator, M|O|O|N, Miami Nights 1984, Lazerhawk or basically anything from the Hotline Miami soundtracks are all good for anyone wanting more.

Don't forget Kavinsky! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavinsky

Com Truise is another solid choice.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#114
post #40
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? I watched more than half of it. It is a bunch of satirical scenes full of memes copy n pasted together with almost nothing in the way of actual storytelling, which makes it less of a movie and more of a collection of youtube clips.

...and this "bunch of scenes" exactly how a lot of 80s movies/animations were. Watch an episode of Thundercats/He-man/Dungeons and Dragons/Mysterious Cities Gold [1] (I loved that show). tl;dr the homage to the 80s is not just the visual style but also extends to the story telling. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ki99YBVKyw

Mysterious Cities of Gold? Damn, twp, you just hit me hard in the nostalgia :)

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#115
post #5

Kung Fury is more about the faux-80s that was brought about by Far Cry: Blood Dragon. Not that that's a bad thing, but "true 80s" flicks are a bit different IMO (ie: Breakfast Club, Back to the Future and the like).

Saw two (was it three?) decapitations in the first two minutes. One thing which distinguishes the 80s "genre" was that those things were rarely shown outside movies like The Omen. TV was deliberately sanitised, protagonists developed nice, tidy holes when they got shot, they had time for a few last-minute words, they expired with dignity.

Searching IMDB for 1980-1989 keyword "Decapitation" shows 259 movies.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#117
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My theory is that most people don't care about DRM the same way you do It's a common practice for many crowdfunded projects to pitch for more backers by stating that release is DRM-free. You can see people commenting about it, if it's not stated (and projects clarifying this point). Take a look at fiasco with Veronica Mars crowdfunded film which was released with DRM. Backers of the film said all they thought about…

OK, but do you have any numbers to back up the economic side of the argument? I get that it's an ethical issue for you, but you lose me when you talk about 'sick minded publishers,' because different editions with or without DRM are simply what they have available to sell, and they're just allocating to wherever they see the best price. If Alice will pay $10 for a streaming copy (with DRM), Bob will pay $30 for a DRM…

> OK, but do you have any numbers to back up the economic side of the argument?

There is research which shows that DRM always reduces potential for sales. So crowdfunding isn't any different in this aspect. Remember, they profit from sales post release too, and not only from crowdfunding investors.

> I mean, maybe you and other anti-DRM people should set up a fund and disburse grants or something, but only to people who commit to DRM-free movie and game releasing. That's how other people promote their causes. Money talks, as they say.

In my experience, most crowdfunded projects shun DRM (at least all that actually caught my attention), which is an indication for me that voting with your money works. They clearly see that DRM-free releases gives them more backers.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#118
post #29

A couple of "mistakes" that I caught while watching, thought HN might find them interesting: - There's a reference to Viagra (6:20) but it hadn't been invented yet. - The "hacking time" sequence around 10:30 contains Java [1] which obviously came from the future. There are a few others, perhaps intentional. I won't spoil them here :) [1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/7478u4gkvnmjg6p/Screenshot%202015-...

The "hacking time" sequence around 10:30 contains Java [1] which obviously came from the future.

He did an iama yesterday and someone pointed this out. Turns out he went to r/programming asking for someone to write him some code that would hack time. someone sent him Java... or Hackerman invented java so he could write once run any Time.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#119
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son used to watch lots of TV at 4, but by 5 he basically stopped in favour of Youtube - mostly things like gameplay videos (Minecraft...). Now he's 6 and I actually can't remember the last time he watched a TV channel..

My daughter has had her own computer since she was two, which is the joy of a techie household full of discards. She watched CBeebies streaming from the website, but has also shifted to Minecraft gameplay videos. (Which are, in all seriousness, what the kids of today have instead of Saturday morning cartoons.) I told her horror stories of how in my day, we had three channels and they only showed stuff when it was on…

Yeah, I've explained to my son we didn't have Youtube when I was a kid, and the look of total shock and disbelief was quite amusing.

Re: Kung Fury – a comedy funded through Kickstarter [video]

#120
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter has had her own computer since she was two, which is the joy of a techie household full of discards. She watched CBeebies streaming from the website, but has also shifted to Minecraft gameplay videos. (Which are, in all seriousness, what the kids of today have instead of Saturday morning cartoons.) I told her horror stories of how in my day, we had three channels and they only showed stuff when it was on…

Yeah, I've explained to my son we didn't have Youtube when I was a kid, and the look of total shock and disbelief was quite amusing.

I mean, she'd seen the CBeebies stream, so she understood the concept of a programmed channel.
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