The real irony is, the Creationist are so sure science can't be the right explanation. Why? The clear implication is, God was not smart enough to create a Universe that would evolve us. No, he had to cheat and Bang! here we are. Their God is as dumb as they are.
Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
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Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
An experiment must be conducted in a controlled environment. Merely staring at iguanas that they found on an island, does not constitute an experiment. What are the inputs, the outputs and the function that they have unleashed during their experiment in order to transform input into output? Furthermore, into what did they try to transform their iguanas? Into cats or dogs?
> Field experiments are so named in order to draw a contrast with laboratory experiments, which enforce scientific control by testing a hypothesis in the artificial and highly controlled setting of a laboratory. Often used in the social sciences, and especially in economic analyses of education and health interventions, field experiments have the advantage that outcomes are observed in a natural setting rather than i…
It sounds too much like you are requesting an exemption from the governing anti-alchemy policy that you would like to see suspended -- as a matter of exception -- in order to let through the gates some questionable things that we should not qualify as science. Just staring at things during a 'field experiment' will never be science. You must modify them, and we should be able to repeat your modifications. So, no thanks but no. No exemption.
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it bothersome that the goverment decides that it is illegal for schools to teach a lie? Schools are a social(ist) institution put in place by the goverment to ensure people have an equal access to knowledge - a foundation. Schools also have to follow a certain curriculum which would give this foundation. A school cannot simply choose to not teach reading or writing, or teach that the earth is flat because they…
Because banning gives a government the power to hide the truth. Who gets to decide something is a lie? The majority may all be in favor this time, but what gets banned next? There is no issue with schools deciding it is not in their interest to teach a subject; however, not being allowed to discus a subject is same as book burning. How about letting schools teach the subject along with skills on how to do proper inve…
> however, not being allowed to discus a subject is same as book burning
They are allowed to discuss a subject, but not on the science class because it is not science. Or do you think that it has to be allowed to teach that the Earth is flat in science class?
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't understand what evolution is. It really a name, and needs no proof. Basically, there are a few known facts: (1) organisms die, (2) organisms reproduce, (3) the offspring are different from each other and from the parents, (4) the differences are more or less random, (5) dying is not random but a consequence of external forces, and (6) external forces are relatively constant. From these facts, it logically f…
If it needs no proof, it is not science either, and that was exactly the point I was making.
You didn't respond to any of the main points listed in the second paragraph. Would you say you can't find experiments for points (1) to (4)?
Does point (5) needs any experiments? While point (6) just needs a more extensive definition.
These 6 points are giving you the proof that you are asking for evolution to be proven in a scientific method.
Edit: fixed typos.
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#75It's fine to teach creationism... just not in a science class. What the majority of the creation supporters don't get is that creationism isn't a science, it's a philosophy. There's nothing constructive or tangible about the theory. You can't test it in a lab, you can't observe it in nature--unless you think irreducible complexity (aka "we don't understand how this could come about, therefore it must be divinely crea…
> It's fine to teach creationism
If by "teach" you mean anything resembling "present a subject as if it were factual, and rooted in evidence", then no.
It's okay to inform students about creationism.
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#76Although I'm an atheist, I find this to be somewhat disturbing. Creationism, regardless of its mythological background, still is part of Humanity and any conclusions about it should be drawn by the individual, not the State or teachers. They'd be better off spending more time with Critical Thinking, Scientific Method and Logic, powerful tools to genuinely understand Religion and not just take "facts" for granted.
> still is part of Humanity
It's not part of that sphere of humanity that we call science.
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#77Makes one proud to be a Brit - or more specifically, a Scott!
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#78I'm currently teaching computing at a independent fundamentalist Christian 'young Earth' creationist school - in London, UK.
It's surreal at times. The kids (~20 altogether!) are wonderful: well mannered, eager to learn. So my frustration is extreme when I see the material they're being force-fed. The school follows the ACE ('Accelerated Christian Education') curriculum. It's imported from the USA, and teaches that the Earth is 6000 years old, that there was a Great Flood, and that evolution is evil. The textbooks are seething with pseudoscience - from illustrations of humans coexisting with dinosaurs, to articles connecting snakes to the serpent from the Garden of Eden, and so much more...
The real problem is that Ofsted - the UK government's regulator for standards in education - has consistently given the school a 'good' rating. (WTF???) Worse yet, the accreditation offered by the school - the ICCE (International Certificate of Christian Education) - is actually considered by UK NARIC (the 'designated National Agency responsible for providing information, advice and expert opinion on qualifications worldwide') to be "comparable to the overall Cambridge International O and A Level standard respectively." (Again, WTF???)
Since the government has utterly failed these student victims, I figured that perhaps an appeal to rationality might get somewhere. So, a few weeks back I had a 9 hour(!) meeting with the school principal and her husband. It failed, and perhaps I came close to being asked to leave. But I'm diplomatic (and valuable), so I'm still there.
Since then I've devoted many hours to Bible study, and research into the arguments of Creationists. (Remember: one can't engage with these people using reason or rationality. Know your opponent.) I strongly feel it's possible to convey to them the vitality of Science - that it's one of the holiest of human endeavors, to be blessed rather than reviled. And it's backed by solid religious arguments, supported completely by Scripture, and by Christian luminaries from Augustine of Hippo to John Calvin. I'm preparing a presentation to the school management (and, hopefully, parents)...
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because banning gives a government the power to hide the truth. Who gets to decide something is a lie? The majority may all be in favor this time, but what gets banned next? There is no issue with schools deciding it is not in their interest to teach a subject; however, not being allowed to discus a subject is same as book burning. How about letting schools teach the subject along with skills on how to do proper inve…
By that line of reasoning schools should no teach anything at all. 2+2=5 is just as valid math as 2+2=4, anything else would be allowing the government to hide the truth!
That is not what I stated. Banning is saying that we can't discuss why 2+2 is not 5, because that subject is banned.
If a lot of people come often come to a wrong conclusion, you should be able to teach and discuss why that happens. Banning subjects is running away from debate and discussion. It fails to teach logical analysis and investigation.
Re: Creationism Banned from Science Classes by Scottish Government
#80I find it funny and sad that in 21st century we still have to explicitly prohibit such thing. Up next -- "Tooth faery theory banned from dental schools".
There's nothing in the article to suggest they actually did have to (quite the contrary -- the government had been replying for ages that there wasn't a need for a ban). Perhaps I'm cynical, but it seems to have gone like this... "Minister, when will the Government ban bandersnatches from school cupboards?" "Um, I'm pretty sure there aren't any bandersnatches in the school cupboards..." "Minister refuses to ban bande…
There's an English public school chemistry teacher who believes in creationism and young earth.
Here's a clip of him talking to Dawkins.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdlfm8_creationist-teacher-...
They might not allowed to teach creationism as part of the national curriculum but there are creationists in English schools and it's probably useful to have laws preventin them fromteaching creationism as science.