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Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

etherealmind.com

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Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#3
> In the questions at the end, he points out the bug bounties are a PR Problem. When you pay a bug bounty and fix, the researcher needs to shutup instead of going public about the vulnerability. Of course, the researcher needs the publicity to build a business & credibility. So bug bounties are likely to die.

Because security researchers need to build their business, they will find vulnerabilties and disclose them, no matter what. The biggest splashes in the past year were Heartbleed and Shellshock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither were driven by bug bounties.

Bug bounties are a PR problem, but they are a smaller PR problem than a zero-day disclosure that results in massive exploits. The point is get the company slightly ahead of the PR curve, not to kill disclosure (which would be impossible).

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#4
Strong agree, network based firewalls don't make sense based on performance needs and placement at the edge of an increasingly ephemeral network perimeter.

Host and edge / stub firewalls with strong orchestration will be far more pervasive along with lots of network traffic auditing and anomaly detection that happens in near real-time, but out of the line of fire (out of band).

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#6

> In the questions at the end, he points out the bug bounties are a PR Problem. When you pay a bug bounty and fix, the researcher needs to shutup instead of going public about the vulnerability. Of course, the researcher needs the publicity to build a business & credibility. So bug bounties are likely to die. Because security researchers need to build their business, they will find vulnerabilties and disclose them, n…

Bug bounties are a PR problem if handled badly. If handled well, bug bounties say "look at all of the ways we've made our product more secure". Put another way, do you think Google is less secure or more secure because of their engagement with security researchers?

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#7

> In the questions at the end, he points out the bug bounties are a PR Problem. When you pay a bug bounty and fix, the researcher needs to shutup instead of going public about the vulnerability. Of course, the researcher needs the publicity to build a business & credibility. So bug bounties are likely to die. Because security researchers need to build their business, they will find vulnerabilties and disclose them, n…

When I report a vulnerability, I ask (if it's not already known) what their timetable is for patching it. If they want more than 30 days for a simple fix, I disclose immediately.

The turnaround time for most projects I've reported to was less than a week.

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#8
I'd like to counter, IoT will probably change this view. (however the points raised are still valid.)

IoT devices generally have utterly terrible security, and you'll not want them public exposed. I can envisage a place for a house wide firewall of somesort, to stop publicly addressable devices being knocked offline, or exploited by persons unknown.

So there will be a need for a "virtual front door" something that home router should really do, but fails utterly in most cases.

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#9

I'd like to counter, IoT will probably change this view. (however the points raised are still valid.) IoT devices generally have utterly terrible security, and you'll not want them public exposed. I can envisage a place for a house wide firewall of somesort, to stop publicly addressable devices being knocked offline, or exploited by persons unknown. So there will be a need for a "virtual front door" something that ho…

I think the article is referring more to enterprise installations for firewalls - I don't think we're worried about 100G internet to domestic endpoints any time soon. Domestic use will still make sense, likely for years to come. In data centers? Not so much.

Re: Why firewalls won’t matter in a few years

#10
Firewalls are just some stupid crap industry made up and went with. We've known since the Orange Book days that security had to be done holistically involving every endpoint and network. Their standard for security was a strong TCB on endpoint with trusted path (see EROS or Dresden's Nitpicker); a network card with onboard security kernel, firewall, and crypto (see GNTP + GEMSOS); connections between networks through high assurance guards (see Boeing SNS or BAE's SAGE); proxies + guard software for risky protocols such as email (see mail guards like SMG or Nexor). All of this collectively working together was what it took to enforce a fairly-simple, security policy (MLS). More flexible attempts happened in capability model with KeyKOS + KeySAFE, E programming language, CapDesk desktop, and so on.

So, the above was the minimum that NSA et al would consider secure against adversaries on their level. Every security-critical component was carefully spec'd, implementation mapped against spec 1-to-1, analyzed for covert channels, pen-tested, and even generated on-site. Commercial industry, aiming at max profit and time to market, just shipped stuff with security features but not assurance. Broke every rule in the field. Came up with firewalls (knockoff of guards), AV, and so on to counter minor tactics. Of course that didn't work as it doesn't solve the central security problem: making sure all states or flows in the system correspond to a security policy.

The best route is to put security in the end-point along with E-like tools for distributed applications and hardware acceleration of difficult parts. Within your trust domain, you just check data types and use that for information flow control (aka security). Outside trust domain, you do input validation and checks before assigning types. The hardware will be like crash-safe.org or CHERI processor in that it handles the rest. A security-aware, I/O offload engine will help too. Fixing the root problem along with a unified model (capability-based, distributed) will make most security problems go away. At that point, firewalls will be about keeping out the riff raff and preventing DOS attacks.

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