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F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

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Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#101

Post by cgarvey »

notdanariely wrote: post #57
remarkEon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, most of the time when I'm reading something and I get a half-way popup like that, or a popup after I click the 2nd page of a multi-page article, I just leave. I find it almost disrespectful to the user.

I don't say this to criticize anything you said, but to offer the perspective of a company. If they produce content for the sake of conversions, does it really matter to them if you hit back as soon as you see the popup? You've self-selected to indicate you aren't interested in doing business with them based on their popup practices. From their perspective, this could be a bonus. Not that server resources are that sc…

I think one failure point of this thought process is that popup practices don't relate to the content or why the User clicked on the article to begin with. Popups that cover/interrupt the content aren't necessary and shouldn't be a "match" indicator for your company. Unless you're in the business of selling "annoying" products and you need people who are tolerant of that or enjoy being annoyed.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#102

Post by JoeAltmaier »

gk1 wrote: post #81
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way I finish reading anything that pops up halfway through. That's just more callous manipulation of my browser. I leave instantly. If the back button doesn't work, I kill it. How many of those 11,848 people didn't finish your article? Do you care?

That's a good question, and I do care. And because I know the HN crowd is less tolerable of these things, I actually had a filter to NOT show it to visitors referred by HN. And now, as I mentioned, I'm experimenting with a different type of prompt that I hope will lower that risk.

Wow, that's cynical. You want HNers to spread the word, so they get a sanitized version? That's borderline creepy. Now I recommend a site, and the people I recommend to are thinking I'm an idiot for recommending an ad-riddled site.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#103

Post by gk1 »

gdilla wrote: post #99
gk1 wrote: post #36

In case you're wondering why anyone would use these _obviously_ annoying popups, here's why: If done right, they actually work. Here's a real example: In March I added a delayed popup to my blog to invite people to subscribe for future updates about user acquisition. It was on a delayed timer so that the reader has a chance to at least get part-way through the post. Also, if you closed it out once then you wouldn't s…

if a few (2%) slip through, it's better than 0 I guess. But why do they have to be in your face? Can't they just slide up on the bottom of the page and stay down there so you can at least finish the sentence you're reading? I'm asking this as a general question.

I was wondering the same thing so that's why I'm trying out a different version now.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#104

Post by [deleted] »

gk1 wrote: post #36

In case you're wondering why anyone would use these _obviously_ annoying popups, here's why: If done right, they actually work. Here's a real example: In March I added a delayed popup to my blog to invite people to subscribe for future updates about user acquisition. It was on a delayed timer so that the reader has a chance to at least get part-way through the post. Also, if you closed it out once then you wouldn't s…

[deleted]

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#105

Post by emodendroket »

mikeash wrote: post #94
emodendroket wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People willingly enter their credentials after clicking on links in obvious phishing e-mails that they have no idea why they received. Do you really think it's unlikely that people clicked your verification link without intending to sign up for additional e-mails from you? If people are entering their e-mails and clicking a verification link without wanting to receive e-mails it's absolutely their own damn fault an…

You may not care about spamming them afterwards (and I sympathize with that view... there's only so much you can do) but if it skews your numbers to the point where you can't determine whether your popups are actually effective, surely you care about that?

So the OP shouldn't use pop-ups because they'll skew numbers in such a way that he can't tell if pop-ups are effective?

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#106

Post by emodendroket »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #98
emodendroket wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "everyone" finds them annoying why are they clicking the links or giving their e-mail addresses?

9800 out of 10,000? That sure sounds like pretty much "everyone"

I don't usually engage such popups but I also don't find it very hard to dismiss them if I want to read the article. Reading an article takes at least a few minutes, depending how long it is. Dismissing a modal takes seconds.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#107

Post by JoeAltmaier »

emodendroket wrote: post #78
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way I finish reading anything that pops up halfway through. That's just more callous manipulation of my browser. I leave instantly. If the back button doesn't work, I kill it. How many of those 11,848 people didn't finish your article? Do you care?

Oh no you have to press the escape button once. I wouldn't care, personally.

Don't be silly. They get more convoluted every day. Hidden close buttons, countdowns, close buttons in the wrong corner of the box, overlays that you can't dismiss without entering data. Every disruptive thing gets done, all with the rationalization that the customer really wants your product and you're doing them a favor.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#108

Post by Alupis »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #95
Alupis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't fool yourself. Everybody finds them annoying I don't believe that's true. What we see here is an exhibit of the False-Consensus Effect[1]. You believe they are annoying, and many on HN believe they are annoying, therefore they (popups) must be annoying to everyone. This logic ignores the fact that 99% of web users are not technical, and view the web in an entirely different light. On ecommerce websites, popup…

I think somebody is fooling themselves, and I think it isn't me. Its self-serving to stick a dialog box in somebody's face, then spend 100's of words defending that choice by denying the obvious. All the arguments above are about the site, not about the visitor. "capturing customer email", "Buying the right to email market" are not about the visitor gaining value by reading a blog entry. And those who object to the p…

> Perhaps I was a whale with a blank check, reading the blog entry to find out more. One popup and now I'm gone.

You don't run websites (especially ecommerce websites) hoping and praying for a "whale" to come along and bless you with their deep pockets... just like you don't play baseball hedging on hitting only home runs. That's a recipe for failure.

> Its self-serving to stick a dialog box in somebody's face

Yes, that's the point. I want their email addresses.

> then spend 100's of words defending that choice by denying the obvious.

Frankly, you cannot argue with the effectiveness of popup email collection. Every time we blast our 150,000+ email marketing list (mostly gathered via the popup as well as other means), the websites are almost crushed under the traffic load. 1 email can generate $10's of thousands in revenue... so yes, collecting emails is of very high importance for us, and many similar ecommerce companies.

> are not about the visitor gaining value by reading a blog entry

You are certainly right -- it's more about the company gaining value, however, a great many of our customers gain value by seeing deals on products they are interested in. That is a win-win for everyone.

> And those who object to the process are "not my target".

If you aren't buying something from my site, or clicking an ad, then you are not my target. Instead you are just consuming my company's resources and ultimately won't convert into a sale. To be frank, we don't want those types of visitors on the website, although it's unavoidable (ecommerce generally considers an average 3-5% conversion rate to be good).

The point is, you are annoyed by popups, and choose to punish sites that employ them. Just like some choose to punish sites that provide free content but pay the bills with ads. It's a strong bias to impose on the rest of the internet users... especially when you are in the minority percentile.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#109

Post by Alupis »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #97
notdanariely wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it kinda is the price of visiting the internet. Because most content is free but ad-supported... doesn't that mean viewing ads is the price you pay? (At least in a large sense -- I'm intentionally ignoring adblock technology because as of right now it's just not that significant)

"Most of the Internet" is Netflix (by bandwidth). They charge for their services, and have zero popups or ads. The rest of the Internet is pay-to-play like Steam. At least for me.

> At least for me.

You are not the average internet user.

Your biases do not apply to 99% of internet users. The things on websites that annoy you do not annoy 99% of internet users. The marketing antics that work for 99% of internet users do not work on you.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#110

Post by emodendroket »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #107
emodendroket wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no you have to press the escape button once. I wouldn't care, personally.

Don't be silly. They get more convoluted every day. Hidden close buttons, countdowns, close buttons in the wrong corner of the box, overlays that you can't dismiss without entering data. Every disruptive thing gets done, all with the rationalization that the customer really wants your product and you're doing them a favor.

You're conflating different issues.
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