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Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

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Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#91

Post by revelation »

Nadya wrote: post #47
devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

Pay careful attention to her reaction: https://i.imgur.com/avVTybvh.jpg The brain is actually fairly easily tricked. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/05/2...

You can get the same reaction from playing any other game with an element of surprise on just a normal display.

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#92

Post by pimlottc »

julianpye wrote: post #6

The interesting aspect here is the iPhone availability for Cardboard and the use of Youtube as the platform for 3D VR. Youtube already had stereoscopic support, but there were not many clients available, content was limited and difficult to create with 3rd party solutions that all cost money. It never took off and couldn't ride the wave of the studio and CE company driven 3D momentum, which quieted down after a while…

I'm looking forward to trying out Cardboard on iOS. Anyone have a recommendation for a good viewer manufacturer? (I'm a bit surprised at how much some of the kits are, given they're made of, er, cardboard).

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#93

Post by Veedrac »

andrewparker wrote: post #40
devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

You're talking about Presense, which is the point at which your brain flips and is convinced what its seeing is real. Michael Abrash has a wonderful deck he wrote while at Valve about what it will take for VR to create Presense in the viewer. It's worth a read if you care about how we'll navigate past the uncanny valley of VR you describe: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/abrashblog/Abrash%20Dev%2...

There's a ton of really interesting stuff on his old Valve blog:

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#94

Post by nickysielicki »

devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

Totally disagree.

A few months ago I was walking around the Unreal 4 Paris Apartment demo [0] with a Occulus DK2. The resolution isn't quite there, but it definitely felt real. I think that VR can definitely provoke feelings of reality, at least if the people working on it keep going forward in resolution like they have been.

[0]: https://youtu.be/Y6PQ19BEE24

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#95

Post by methehack »

devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

I think it's worth correcting your use of "Uncanny valley". My understanding (see links below) is that "Uncanny Valley" refers to virtual beings trying to trick you into thinking they're real but coming off as creepy instead -- e.g. the Tom Hanks voiced train conductor in "The Polar Express". Creepy. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley and the new yorker article here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/28/pixel-perfect-2

It does not refer, as you suggest, to the general case of VR not seeming real. There is a special thing that happens when we see fake beings trying to pawn themselves off as real. It think it's worth preserving the distinction.

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#96

Post by Nadya »

revelation wrote: post #91
Nadya wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay careful attention to her reaction: https://i.imgur.com/avVTybvh.jpg The brain is actually fairly easily tricked. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/05/2...

You can get the same reaction from playing any other game with an element of surprise on just a normal display.

I differentiate between jump scares/immersion and presence.

Imagine playing a hack and slash game. A user is not reacting every time their character is hit. They may have an initial reaction to a surprise attack that catches them off guard, but no more. There is some level of immersion but there is no level of presence. They never feel like they might be in danger and their body does not react as if it is in any danger.

Presence would be having a feeling of discomfort anytime your avatar was injured. The brain having tricked itself into thinking it is the avatar. When the avatar gets hit by a weapon, the user's body sweats and tenses up, believing it was just hit by an actual weapon.

Air-pressured tactile gloves can help develop a sense of presence. For example, pressure when grabbing a rock may trick your brain into believing the rock is real.

I wanted to focus more on the studies than the .gif. Having a mannequin stabbed and the participant's body reacting is a sense of presence and not simply a jump scare. The brain couldn't tell its own body from that of a mannequin.

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#97

Post by joshu »

prbuckley wrote: post #32

There are a couple of consumer ready 360 camera options available to purchase today ($300-$400), albeit not 3d steroscopic. I have personally played with the ricoh theta and the kodak pixpro and think they are good products. Here are some links if you want to check them out, I don't work for any of these companies but am a VR enthusiast... Good for stills and video https://theta360.com/en/about/theta/ Action camera s…

I took an sp360 on track. Review: pass. I can dig out the video if you care.

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#98

Post by mturmon »

methehack wrote: post #95
devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

I think it's worth correcting your use of "Uncanny valley". My understanding (see links below) is that "Uncanny Valley" refers to virtual beings trying to trick you into thinking they're real but coming off as creepy instead -- e.g. the Tom Hanks voiced train conductor in "The Polar Express". Creepy. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley and the new yorker article here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazi…

It is readily apparent that the commenter is using an analogy ("a sort of uncanny valley of VR"). Let's not get sidetracked.

Re: Jump – Experiences like you're actually there

#99

Post by netcan »

devindotcom wrote: post #22

I love all the experimentation in this area but I'm afraid systems like this are going to fall into a sort of uncanny valley of VR. Your brain is incredibly good at picking out the discrepancies between the real world and a high-resolution 120fps image with surround sound - just as it is incredibly good at recognizing objects and motions masquerading as human. It's like going from 2D/24FPS to 3D/48FPS. You'd think it…

Well put and fascinating points.

I;m not entirely sure if this is adding to or disagreeing with the points you make…

A few weeks ago I commented on some thread about robot maids and such. My point was and is that when we picture a far off idea that we suspect is coming (AI, VR, human-less hotel-resorts) we need mental placeholders where people go now. Technology tends to replace people in the way reddit replaces librarians but we can’t picture reddit in advance until the world wide web or something similar exists. So, flying cars, robot mades and sexy female AIs. They’re placeholders for future automation or changes that make the need go away rather then meeting the need.

Back to Jump. Our starting point is a made up idea of what VR entertainment looks like. Game of Thrones in VR. Jerry Springer in VR. Xuxa in VR.

You make a valid point that this won’t work. I totally agree. But, I’m fairly optimistic about the ingenuity of artists. Lots of things run into these kinds of problems. A conversation between two actors pretending to be doctors is not uncanny, but there are arts to making it palatable. They will figure out POV issues. Should you be a character or an invisible eye like in flat films? Maybe they could use filters to make it look like ‘A Scanner Darkly’ to get over the issue you describe.

This is what art does. They’ll figure it out.

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