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The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

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Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#31
Absolutely amazing achievement, and sickening all at the same time. I never realized the scale and magnitude of WWII, or how distorted the view of our world is according to mainstream media.

Well worth the ticket price to support future work like this.

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#32
post #19
post #10

Who else noticed the flag of China? It should be called ROC or Taiwan if you use that flag.

Not at all. During WWII, that was already the flag of the Republic of China, which happened to be the only "China" in existence at the time. No other flag was used then, so it would be anachronistic to use communist China's flag here, and Taiwan was not part of China at the time so it would be even worse to talk about Taiwan fighting the war.

Quite right. Also the flags of other countries are shown as they were at the time. Nazi and Soviet flags are obvious, as is the case for Yugoslavia which existed then and is no more, but the flags of Greece and Burma are contemporary as well.

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#33
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's some scientific evidence of the Russian winters 1940 - 1942 being particularily harsh: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1256/wea.248.04/pdf Of course, it did not help that Hitler thought he could advance much faster and did not even prepare for winter. Those two winters weakened the Germans significantly.

Here's some scientific evidence of the Russians throwing over 20 million human lifes [1] into german gun barrels: take a look at the original post. You mentioning the winter twice seems quite cynical in context. [1] I've recently read a newish book about the casualties on the eastern front which suggests (based on research by western scholars) that the actual numbers were probably well over 32 million people and due…

My father was in the Finnish army (which suffered too small losses to even fit in the presentation) fighting the Soviets, and was wounded in a Russian counter-attack north of Petrozavodsk in October 1942. The battle diary of his brigade says "we suffered bad losses".

A Russian division-strength attacking force pushed a Finnish brigade-strength force back about 400 m on a fraction of the front which was about 800 m wide.

The "bad losses" were 49 men killed on the Finnish side. The Russian losses in this two-day battle were estimated about 1400 men killed. And as a result the Finnish commander remarked that "the Russians have changed; they are no longer throwing human life away completely mindlessly and they actually try some sensible military attack tactics".

A ratio of 30 Russians killed in attack to grind down 1 enemy was "sensible" compared to what the Russians had been doing before that. Of course, eventually it worked, they had the 31st soldier as well.

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#35
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the 20 million Soviet war dead had anything to do with it?

Here's some scientific evidence of the Russian winters 1940 - 1942 being particularily harsh: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1256/wea.248.04/pdf Of course, it did not help that Hitler thought he could advance much faster and did not even prepare for winter. Those two winters weakened the Germans significantly.

Battle of Kursk was fight in the summer, Stalingrad was fought over multiple seasons. The most major factor that winter played was probably Moscow in 1941.

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#36
I grew up in the United States.

In school, when I was educated about the war, Germany is construed as this bully that no one stands up to. I remember having the impression that the rest of Europe just lacked the courage to fight back, opting for appeasement instead. I remember being taught that Nazi Germany only appeared strong -- but that inside was a crumbling, weak core. Like a bully who would crumple in a real fight.

I remember being taught that countries that are evil cannot be also strong. I remember being taught that the Soviet Union was similar -- it was evil, and therefore weak, and that's why it ultimately collapsed.

Thinking back, I was obviously indoctrinated. The truth was, Germany was strong. Evil, and strong. Just look at the numbers. All the other theaters of the war pale in comparison to the Eastern Front.

It seems like such a massive mistake of Hitler to attack the USSR. I wonder what the world would look like today had he not...

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#38
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the winters last for 1.5 years around St Petersburg?

From the diary of Otto Geipel: “1942: The winter comes with full strength, hardly a way left to advance without missing winter equipment. Even the winter clothing is missing. (. . .) At midnight the temperature dropped to a new reported low point. On 24 January 1942, –56 °C was measured at our division observation post.” Temperatures like that make a difference.

My point was that the siege of Leningrad took a year and a half. The 'Russian Winter' doesn't exist in summer. Clearly it was more than 'basically the Russian winter' that stopped the Germans, especially since the German war machine was proven able to take out heavyweights like France in only 6 weeks.

No-one doubts that the Russian winters were a significant factor, but your original statement pandering to mythology, not fact. Russians were throwing themselves into a meat-grinder to stop the Germans - at Stalingrad, the average life expectancy of a newly-arrived soldier was 1 day, and for an officer it was 3 days. Writing off that kind of sacrifice as "nah, basically it was the winter that did it" is living in a fantasy world.

Re: The Fallen of World War II – An Interactive, Data-Driven Documentary

#39
post #13

This is just stunningly beautifully presented, and yet very sobering to think of so many deaths. Also ... Thank you, Russia, for doing so much more. I'd read the 20M deaths, but never seen the larger picture before.

Well, if they had fought smarter, and hadn't been so cruel to their own citizens, there could have been many fewer casualties on their side.

But still, thank you, Russia.

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