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Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

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Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#11

Post by chris100 »

dan_the_welder wrote: post #10

Until we get real high speed internet, 100 Mb or better, the web will not really come into it's own as a potential replacement for the desktop. Until I can get anything off the web as fast as off of my hard drive it's not happening. I love the web and and I love the desktop. Both have their strong and weak points.

I don't see raw speed as being the issue.

Even when you edit a 500-slide powerpoint, all you need at any given time is to see the current slide. Same for word processing.

Rather, I agree with the original poster that it's the APIs that are the weakest link. HTML and CSS are ugly APIs when you think of GUI development.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#12

Post by wisty »

The best thing about the web is that it slows down UI development, and forces developers to actually think about what they are doing.

It also makes it easier to run a decoupled data / interface system, rather than GUI development, where it's easy to build the data and models into the interface.

Web development is like going through a minefield with your feet tied together. It's not ideal, but at least it slows you down.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#13

Post by rudin »

hn wrote: post #6

The author missed two key selling points of web apps. Firstly, users don't need to install to use web apps. They just need to open whatever browser and go to whatever url and the app is already there. Imagine if users have to install 100 desktop apps to have the same set of features which 100 websites offer. It's normal before the web era but ridiculous now. Secondly, web apps enable extremely fast iterating developm…

The lack of installation leads to another selling point of web apps. Security. Whenever I install something on my computer I instinctively flinch as I realize that I am handing over the keys to my car so to speak.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#16

Post by Readmore »

The authors assertion that 'web APIs' can make desktop apps a replacement for web apps doesn't make any sense. Without the web app their are no APIs, Tweetie may be a great app but it can't function without Twitter.

The power of web apps is in the interoperability and reach. The fact that I can access an app with a desktop interface, or through a browser, or on my phone, or on another browser is what makes web apps 'win'.

A Desktop app using 'web apis' is just an extension of a successful web app, but that's fine, it's all about building the right on-ramp for your users. Whatever gets them using the app is the right answer. But whether you're accessing it through a browser or native interface the web has won, there is no refuting that.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#18

Post by paulbaumgart »

dasil003 wrote: post #5

PPK's original post was in poor taste and willfully ignored the significant benefits of native apps, but I don't feel like this article is any better. Yes, the web is trendy , and as such it is full of arrogant wannabe-developer hangers-on making all kinds of ridiculous claims and prognostications. I suppose they deserve to be called out just for being insufferable douchebags, but there is one very important issue be…

Fortunately a good chunk of this entrenched, existing technology is open source, especially in the server market. And the GPLv3 closes a lot of loopholes that hardware manufacturers might have used to achieve that lock-in anyway.

I agree with your basic point that the Web is one of the most open "platforms" we have, but I think the dire prognostications for the others are too pessimistic.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#19

Post by paulbaumgart »

fjabre wrote: post #7

With regard to UX, web development is a pain in the ass. It's 1000x easier to create a smooth and well developed UX on the desktop than it is on the web. I believe the web will eventually replace the desktop all together but that's not until it has better access to hardware, especially the GPU. The frustrating bit is how slowly progress in this arena has developed. 10 years later we're still having the rich vs reach…

The answer is better browser-independent (as far as that's possible) libraries, I think. jQuery and Cappuccino are definitely steps in the right direction.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#20

Post by kls »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #19
fjabre wrote: post #7

With regard to UX, web development is a pain in the ass. It's 1000x easier to create a smooth and well developed UX on the desktop than it is on the web. I believe the web will eventually replace the desktop all together but that's not until it has better access to hardware, especially the GPU. The frustrating bit is how slowly progress in this arena has developed. 10 years later we're still having the rich vs reach…

The answer is better browser-independent (as far as that's possible) libraries, I think. jQuery and Cappuccino are definitely steps in the right direction.

While I think JQuery is an impressive library, I think it is light to replace a full desktop UI programming model. As well Cappuccino favors the developer over the designer, in saying that their Atlas tool goes along way to remedy that. Currently, (my personal opinion) I think Dojo and to some extent YUI have the most robust libraries to replace the desktop UI development model.
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