Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

The author of the article fails to mention maintenance. This is probably one of pains of desktop applications. It has been greatly improved by automatic updates (I think everything does that now), but you still have to remain backward compatible. On top of that, he doesn't mention that "the desktop" is still a very fragmented field. The last time that nut was attempted to be cracked we got Java..

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#5

Post by dasil003 » Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 11:38 PM UTC

PPK's original post was in poor taste and willfully ignored the significant benefits of native apps, but I don't feel like this article is any better.

Yes, the web is trendy, and as such it is full of arrogant wannabe-developer hangers-on making all kinds of ridiculous claims and prognostications. I suppose they deserve to be called out just for being insufferable douchebags, but there is one very important issue being ignored:

The web is a true open standard in a time when computerized technology is crossing the chasm and increasingly the powers that be will seek to control everything in order to squeeze whatever profit they can out of it at the expense of all future progress. I don't really believe companies like Apple are the real problem, but over time, proprietary platforms will provide opportunities for mega-corporations to lock in consumers. Up until 20 years ago or so it was very hard to get any kind of lock-in because it was still mostly early adopters and hackers who owned computers. However once the majority of the world is online, software matures and hardware becomes more complex to manufacture, the inertia of existing technologies will make it harder and harder for disruptive technology to get a foothold.

That is why even though the web is inferior to native APIs by numerous qualitative measures, we need to support the web and really push for more "native" APIs to be build on top of standard tech like javascript (where feasible), and also continue pushing standards to improve.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#6

Post by hn » Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 11:40 PM UTC

The author missed two key selling points of web apps. Firstly, users don't need to install to use web apps. They just need to open whatever browser and go to whatever url and the app is already there. Imagine if users have to install 100 desktop apps to have the same set of features which 100 websites offer. It's normal before the web era but ridiculous now. Secondly, web apps enable extremely fast iterating development and release. You can ship new versions as quick as you want, no delay, no real downloads, absolutely transparent to users. Essentially web apps and desktop apps are the same in the sense that they both depend on APIs. Web apps depend on remote APIs and desktop apps depend on local/native APIs. The more local dependency you can remove, the more powerful the apps can be. Therefore, web apps are much more powerful than desktop apps and desktop apps making uses of public APIs such as Twitter APIs, Facebook APIs are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#7

Post by fjabre » Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 11:42 PM UTC

With regard to UX, web development is a pain in the ass. It's 1000x easier to create a smooth and well developed UX on the desktop than it is on the web.

I believe the web will eventually replace the desktop all together but that's not until it has better access to hardware, especially the GPU.

The frustrating bit is how slowly progress in this arena has developed. 10 years later we're still having the rich vs reach argument.. Why can't we have both already?

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#8

Post by uuilly » Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 12:36 AM UTC

hn wrote: post #6

The author missed two key selling points of web apps. Firstly, users don't need to install to use web apps. They just need to open whatever browser and go to whatever url and the app is already there. Imagine if users have to install 100 desktop apps to have the same set of features which 100 websites offer. It's normal before the web era but ridiculous now. Secondly, web apps enable extremely fast iterating developm…

No install but in most cases you have to create a login, and the confirmation email often goes to spam.

As for power, that all depends on your needs. 3d on the web is still on the weak side of weak. Offline access is still a major issue. Not to mention the tedium of single file uploads and zero OS / device integration.

Despite its obvious flaw, the iPhone store has struck a brilliant balance in many ways. The install, update, remove cycle is way easier that deleting an account or uninstalling from the desktop. In most cases iPhone apps are just nice desktop interfaces for web apps (reinforcing the author's point.)

In the Gates / Jobs interview Steve said that he believed people prefer a native experience w/ the power of the cloud to a pure cloud experience. Which is essentially what the author is saying.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#9

Post by uuilly » Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 12:37 AM UTC

hvs wrote: post #4

The author of the article fails to mention maintenance. This is probably one of pains of desktop applications. It has been greatly improved by automatic updates (I think everything does that now), but you still have to remain backward compatible. On top of that, he doesn't mention that "the desktop" is still a very fragmented field. The last time that nut was attempted to be cracked we got Java..

Qt has done a very good job of cracking that nut.

Re: Web Developers Are Stupid and Arrogant

#10

Post by dan_the_welder » Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 2:04 AM UTC

Until we get real high speed internet, 100 Mb or better, the web will not really come into it's own as a potential replacement for the desktop.

Until I can get anything off the web as fast as off of my hard drive it's not happening.

I love the web and and I love the desktop. Both have their strong and weak points.