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My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

wired.com

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#71
post #8

>"Without that knowledge, I would never have known I was being suckered." Suckered by yourself you mean, and suckered by the people that never taught you the principles of a free market where the assumption is that when two parties agree, the situation is satisfactory for both. If not, there is no agreement, no deal. The other party was not suckering you, you were happy with the deal, you took it. Why do you put some…

Holy cow can you communicate an idea without being a raging asshole?

For bonus points,go for an idea that isn't a long boring paraphrase of the person you are commenting. Being "suckered" means exactly what you said, with all the self-deprecation you felt so needed to be reinforced with others deprecation.

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She chickened out. But it's hard.

Its probably a Wired policy to not disclose your salary.

Which is a situation where getting fired for breaking policy is going to be more profitable than keeping your job.

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#73
post #13

I've come to realize lately that I have absolutely no idea what I should be making. I know what I make and I know what I have made in the past, but I have no idea whether it's above or below average. The only way I can think of to determine my value is to go interview in a bunch of places and see what they offer. However, I have no interest in leaving my job right now, and I feel like it's dishonest to go through the…

It's not dishonest at all! They have no intention of hiring people they interview, unless thy find an insanely great offer!

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting. Did you disclose your salary to your coworkers, and if you did, did that effect your relationship with your coworkers?

All three of my managers know my salary (of course). Apart from that, people with whom I am close with know my salary and I know theirs. Mine is the lowest even though one of my friend is IC1 and I am IC2, others are senior to me. Some of them tell me to talk to the manager for my salary. My priority is learning, so it doesn't bother me much. But I did talk to the manager (and her manager's manager too), because if y…

Your confidence and shameless curiosity will take you far in life, with exponentially compounding returns.

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting. Did you disclose your salary to your coworkers, and if you did, did that effect your relationship with your coworkers?

All three of my managers know my salary (of course). Apart from that, people with whom I am close with know my salary and I know theirs. Mine is the lowest even though one of my friend is IC1 and I am IC2, others are senior to me. Some of them tell me to talk to the manager for my salary. My priority is learning, so it doesn't bother me much. But I did talk to the manager (and her manager's manager too), because if y…

[deleted]

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a transparent salary environment, the management is incentivized to pay everyone based on their socially perceived value, to avoid the "OMG Susie gets paid 40% more than I do for the same job," even if Susie is actually 40% more valuable than you are. Which means management is incentivized to probably pay mediocre employees a little more, and stand-out employees less than they could have otherwise earned.

Ok, but wouldn't catering to that OMG crowd be a little self-defeating? Why not just hire adults?

Where will you find these adults?

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#77

What about people with very large paychecks? I don't want to make my friends uncomfortable when they realize I make literally an extra zero at the end of what they make. Should I keep my mouth shut or disclose... for their sake?

Maybe your heart is telling you that you shouldn't be spending an extra 0 on yourself than your peers. If you acknowledge your incredible luck, and that there is diminishing marginal return in lavishly rewarding yourself for our efforts, and you invest the excess in meaningful projects that improve the lot of the world....

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#78
post #47

In California, the salary of its state employees are publicly available here: http://transparentcalifornia.com/

> In California, the salary of its state employees are publicly available here: http://transparentcalifornia.com/

That's not just state employees (its public employees from different public entities within the state), and its also fairly poorly aggregated from disparate sources, such that if you add all the pay and benefit columns together, they often don't match the pay + benefits (and some people who I personally know have non-zero regular pay show with zero in all pay columns, an actual number in the benefit column, and a pay + benefit that is both higher than the benefit amount (remember, all the pay columns are zero) and lower than the person's actual pay before benefits.

There's another similar source [0], which has slightly different coverage (but both cover state employees), which has substantially different numbers for the same years for people covered by both.

Presumably, for state employees, both of those third-party aggregators have done public records requests for the same public information from the State, but they've both processed it using different (and opaque) methodologies, so that no one actually using it knows what they actually mean (the latter source, by using only one number for each person, doesn't make it as clear that they are doing something funky with the data; the former tries to do more, which makes it even more clear that they are doing something weird, because it makes inconsistencies visible.)

They do a good job of creating the illusion of readily-accessible accurate data if you are only aware of one of them and don't have any independent knowledge to verify them against.

[0] http://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state-pay/arti...

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be better if A, B, C, and you joined together and hired some professional lawyers and negotiators to work on your behalf (ie organized labor, union)?

From the employer side, if one or the other is a more valuable employee, I need to be able to compensate them more so that I can ensure they stay with our team and don't go to a competitor. From the employee side, if I go out and learn new skills and abilities, I want to be able to negotiate compensation that reflects the value I bring. Particularly in creative fields like tech / IT, unionization fails both of those…

Having professionals negotiate for the team doesn't necessarily mean the pay will be equal among the team.

Actors, who also work in a creative field and also have vast differences in talent, use many kinds of intermediaries.

Re: My Struggle with the Last Great Taboo: Admitting My Salary

#80
post #68

One of the reasons I like sites like glassdoor is that it separates the judgment from the data. I don't need to know that Alice makes 22% less than Bob, and Bob makes 18% less than Claire, and therefore make personal judgments about each of my coworkers (like Alice is a pushover; Bob is mediocre; Claire is bossy.) I just need to know what the distribution is, in my company or in my industry, in order to negotiate for…

Interesting that your example used "bossy" for a female

it was an intentional reference [0], since I was highlighting how putting names to the salaries encourages inappropriate, judgmental attitudes. The list could be expanded -- DeShawn makes X because of racism or affirmative action; Ellen makes Y because she's out of the closet and HR is full of bigots or allies; Francisco makes Z because his foreign accent makes him sound either exotic or uneducated. So instead of using the salary information to break the taboos and negotiate fair compensation, it becomes a way to reinforce stereotypes.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8gz-jxjCmg

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