Street View, North Korea • Hacker News Board

Re: Street View, North Korea

#71

Post by kuschku » Sat, May 16, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

andrey-p wrote: post #67

rdtsc wrote: post #43

On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs: Heliosphan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0 Flim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk Ageispolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people that regime has starving, w…

At first it didn't seem all that bizarre but a few minutes in you start noticing some interesting things. For instance, the utter lack of traffic lights. Then there's the bit at about 5:14 where two buses have just gone past a bus stop, but there's still at least a good 50 or so people just waiting there, queuing.

There are traffic lights – on the opposite side of the Intersection. (which is also common in some european countries, as it’s easier to see).

Re: Street View, North Korea

#72

Post by RankingMember » Sat, May 16, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #46

RankingMember wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That book was a huge eye-opener to me. It's practically a Nazi-level concentration camp situation, but because they're only doing it to their own people and one of their allies is China, the world does nothing.

"the world does nothing." What would you have the world do? Invade like the US did to Iraq, causing a million deaths?

It's actually a bit silly of me to refer to "the world" as though it's one coherent, unified entity. The U.N. is closer to what I was imagining, but regardless, what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. The NK leadership's power is retained almost entirely through keeping people in the dark.

On a wackier, cantankerous note, I also envision a scheme of dropping solar-charged epaper tablets and blasting the entire country with free WiFi to make locking down knowledge about the outside world impossible.

I'm firmly against outright military intervention (no drones either).

Re: Street View, North Korea

#73

Post by kuschku » Sat, May 16, 2015, 2:26 PM UTC

profmonocle wrote: post #53

rdtsc wrote: post #43

On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs: Heliosphan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0 Flim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk Ageispolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people that regime has starving, w…

What struck me was the lack of life on the streets. Anywhere else I'd expect to see street vendors, buskers, flashy billboards and storefronts, people laughing, but there's none of that. The streets seem purely functional. But they're not bleak either - the landscaping is quite nice, actually. Might just be confirmation bias on my part.

Tbh, this looks mostly – except for maybe some missing logos at stores – just like my city, which is in Germany.

(Although Pyongyang looks, based on scale, a LOT larger)

Re: Street View, North Korea

#74

Post by Thriptic » Sat, May 16, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

andrey-p wrote: post #67

rdtsc wrote: post #43

On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs: Heliosphan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0 Flim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk Ageispolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people that regime has starving, w…

At first it didn't seem all that bizarre but a few minutes in you start noticing some interesting things. For instance, the utter lack of traffic lights. Then there's the bit at about 5:14 where two buses have just gone past a bus stop, but there's still at least a good 50 or so people just waiting there, queuing.

The sprawl of the city struck me as kind of odd, as did the intermixing of small and large buildings.

Re: Street View, North Korea

#75

Post by netrus » Sat, May 16, 2015, 3:00 PM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #72

crdoconnor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the world does nothing." What would you have the world do? Invade like the US did to Iraq, causing a million deaths?

It's actually a bit silly of me to refer to "the world" as though it's one coherent, unified entity. The U.N. is closer to what I was imagining, but regardless, what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. The NK leadership's power is retained almost entirely through keeping people in the dark. On a wackier, cantankerous note, I also envision a…

If only stuff were as easy (regarding your epaper-plan). Propaganda has been there since ages. It does not work well on foreign nations, because people are suspicious of everything their enemies say. WWII would not have changed a bit if all Germans had known of Auschwitz (many did - people got news from the BBC after all!). Kim Jong Un has lived in Europe, and apparently, he did not like what he saw. People's minds are very complicated.

Re: Street View, North Korea

#76

Post by to3m » Sat, May 16, 2015, 4:21 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #43

On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs: Heliosphan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0 Flim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk Ageispolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people that regime has starving, w…

Well, to be fair, fewer than 10% of videos pair poorly with tracks from the Selected Ambient Works series.

This video includes the marked section on the map, starting at roughly 9'38". Note the building to the right of the road.

I wondered whether the photos were pulled from this official(ish) video, but it appears not...

Re: Street View, North Korea

#77

Post by the_af » Sat, May 16, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

profmonocle wrote: post #53

rdtsc wrote: post #43

On the same note, here is a surreal 22 min drive through Pyongyang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE It pairs well with a few Aphex Twin songs: Heliosphan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4cLmbw6q0 Flim : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHkUg-QCwk Ageispolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf6ICP3WAg It is surreal because it almost makes it possible to forget how may people that regime has starving, w…

What struck me was the lack of life on the streets. Anywhere else I'd expect to see street vendors, buskers, flashy billboards and storefronts, people laughing, but there's none of that. The streets seem purely functional. But they're not bleak either - the landscaping is quite nice, actually. Might just be confirmation bias on my part.

According to "A Year in Pyongyang" (written by a Brit, see http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html), in the 80s under Kim Il Sung there were plenty of people laughing in the streets. He describes many workers as having an attitude similar to playful children, and in particular he describes actual kids as "the pampered citizens of North Korea": always laughing, always playing, pampered by everyone. Keep in mind this was an account that didn't downplay the harsh realities of life in NK. It was also the 80s; things may have changed a lot since then.

So yes, I think it is confirmation bias on your part. Life in NK is probably not like we think it is. It is bizarre to us, yes, but the average person probably doesn't live in fear of soldiers raiding their homes, or in dread the Beloved Leader orders them killed. In all likelihood, regardless of how actual life in NK is, those are all fantasies on our part; preconceptions of how life in a weird dictatorship actually is.

I think I, a Westerner, wouldn't like living in NK. At the same time, I really do not think it's a living hell for its citizens -- certainly not in the movie-style dictatorship we sometimes imagine it to be.

Re: Street View, North Korea

#78

Post by the_af » Sat, May 16, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

nashashmi wrote: post #38

themeek wrote: post #11

South Korean and United States foreign policy is now reunification with North Korea, a switch from decades of "Sunshine Policy" under which relationships with NK did improve. This is contextualized by a number of current events including the rise of China and revisionism of Russia, the fight over the Arctic, America's huge losses in cyberwarfare, the US's push for an Asian NATO, and Japan's reinterpretation of their…

> We can expect to see a great deal more about North Korea, and need to hope that, as larger powers attempt to conquer NK and strip its government, that this can be done as peacefully as possible and without triggering all of the Cold War tripwires breeding in the world today. I immediately thought on reading this line of how NK is the last stranglehold where U.S. Commerce has not infiltrated. In fact, much of the ta…

Fully agreed. The thing many of us don't always realize is that democracy is not needed for capitalism to work.

So if the push to topple the North Korean regime is merely to install capitalism...

Re: Street View, North Korea

#79

Post by psykovsky » Sat, May 16, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

psykovsky wrote: post #69

profmonocle wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What struck me was the lack of life on the streets. Anywhere else I'd expect to see street vendors, buskers, flashy billboards and storefronts, people laughing, but there's none of that. The streets seem purely functional. But they're not bleak either - the landscaping is quite nice, actually. Might just be confirmation bias on my part.

There you have it, some North Koreans laughing: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/kxxn0by6wur... Hope you enjoyed it.

BTW, this is the source of that image

http://jalopnik.com/the-hermit-kingdom-an-inside-view-of-nor...

Re: Street View, North Korea

#80

Post by DanBC » Sat, May 16, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #77

profmonocle wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What struck me was the lack of life on the streets. Anywhere else I'd expect to see street vendors, buskers, flashy billboards and storefronts, people laughing, but there's none of that. The streets seem purely functional. But they're not bleak either - the landscaping is quite nice, actually. Might just be confirmation bias on my part.

According to "A Year in Pyongyang" (written by a Brit, see http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html ), in the 80s under Kim Il Sung there were plenty of people laughing in the streets. He describes many workers as having an attitude similar to playful children, and in particular he describes actual kids as "the pampered citizens of North Korea": always laughing, always playing, pampered by everyone. Keep in…

> At the same time, I really do not think it's a living hell for its citizens -- certainly not in the movie-style dictatorship we sometimes imagine it to be.

No, NK is a living hell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10...

> At a public hearing in London last week, Kim Song-Ju told of his four attempts to flee North Korea because of a famine that killed hundreds of thousands of North Koreans during the 1990s.

> After crossing the icy Tumen river that marks the border with China in March 2006, Kim was caught by Chinese guards and forced back to North Korea.

> He described beatings in a North Korean detention camp and how he was ordered to search prisoners' excrement for money they were believed to have swallowed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/north-korea-hum...

> North Korea's leadership is committing systematic and appalling human rights abuses against its own citizens on a scale unparalleled in the modern world, crimes against humanity with strong resemblances to those committed by the Nazis, a United Nations inquiry has concluded.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIDPRK/Pages/Commissio...