Be Kind • Hacker News Board

Re: Be Kind

#231

Post by acdha » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:17 AM UTC

fsk wrote: post #210

beachstartup wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seeing as how there are, in this very thead, people that consider OP to have been a dickhead, i think i'm going to go with the primary source on this one.

Considering how the OP is the mythical 10x-100x programmer, I'd lean towards him not being a dickhead. He singlehandedly implemented several key features for FaceBook. If FaceBook had an average employee instead of the OP, they might not have been as successful.

It's possible to be highly skilled in one area and very weak in another, and the median is almost always more important to the long-term success of a business. Look at it from the perspective of a CEO: is a hot-shot programmer nobody wants to work with more or less likely to be productive than a well-integrated team with a dozen people? Would you want to bet your company on that one person staying healthy, employed by you, never making a mistake, etc. or do you want to bet on a long-term model more sustainable than “Make sure this person never leaves”?

This is why the 10x mythologizing is so annoying. There are a few people who are 10x in specific areas or who might have periods of intense productivity but it's never true across the board for significant periods of time, and it's used to excuse a lot of bad behaviour by 1.2x programmers — not to mention the larger mistake of assuming that the limiting factor on projects is rarely absolute programming ability. In most cases, you see far better results from someone who might be maligned as a .8x programmer who communicates well with the team & users and relies on solid tools and practice rather than assuming sheer skill will save the day.

Re: Be Kind

#232

Post by mkramlich » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:18 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #202

mkramlich wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well said I basically stopped commenting (well, except now -- doh) here on HN because of how frequently I saw toxic responses and punishment down-voting. There are a noisy subset of users here who either (a) can't understand or respect generalizations, especially based on older/real-life experience, or (b) demand "proof" for any claim, or (c) will punish any kind of not-narrowly-PC statement. And then the blatantly r…

A subset of your (a) that I see here a lot is when I write a 500 word essay arguing some point, and the first reply comes in and says something to the effect of: "On word 348, you said 'all'. Here's a counter-example that proves that you should have said 'some' instead! I found the word that is wrong in your statement! See? Your entire argument is invalid!" Nit-picking and pedantry is toxic in real life and on messag…

Great nuance and insight! That feels like part of it.

When I'm wearing the Software Engineer hat, yes, the entire world can fail if a single nit is imperfect. But when we wear the Human Conversing or Persuading hat I expect and indeed enjoy seeing and using a more fuzzy logic. I expect more buffer and assume-I'm-not-an-idiot-kid-please-get-off-my-lawn-been-there-done-that-have-the-tee-shirt-thanks.

Compilers and CPUs are the world's most productive utter idiots. The best engineers adjust their thoughts to see them and emulate them, but sometimes this backfires when they forget to exit that mode.

Re: Be Kind

#233

Post by eclipxe » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:20 AM UTC

fsk wrote: post #216

cookiecaper wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. We should be under no illusion -- employment is a popularity contest. In non-startups, the only thing that matters is how much the people around you, especially the high-ranking people, like you. Other things matter only in the most extreme circumstances -- every normal value can be hand-waved away if the boss likes you enough. If you want to be a successful employee, view yourself as a politician and run a s…

Why bother learning how to write software? I should have focused on sales if that's the only skill that matters.

Welcome to Life 101. It's all about sales + skill. Skill is one part of the equation, necessary but not sufficient. Sales is the other part - unfortunately a great salesman can go very far without hard skills (to be fair, a great salesman has unique skills).

This is a hard fact about life and something a lot of talented people realize way too late. Now you know. Focus on your pitch - ABC - always be closing. Every interaction in life is a transaction of some sort - your sales strategy will determine if you get a good deal or a raw deal.

Re: Be Kind

#234

Post by nashashmi » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:22 AM UTC

I am sorry I did not come across this submission sooner today. There are lots of opinions being passed around here, and all of those opinions are being framed from the point the OP focused on: kindness.

I am not sure if kindness is the right remedy. In fact I don't know what the right remedy is. But my insight is a little different here. These past couple of years I have been slowly reading a book called "The Multiplier." It has been a very difficult read, mostly because every page of every chapter has been a slap in the face. I am constantly having regrets over the past. The book is related to management, and in essence, it says that intelligent people get miscarried by their intelligence. And then the book gives situations upon situations and examples upon examples of how intelligent people are terrible managers.

The book also says that the best possible thing for a team is to remove its most obnoxiously intelligent person. Similar to when you remove a queen from a chess board, the weight of winning and accomplishing great things now equally rests on the shoulders of all players, positioning everybody for growth.

And if you are still reading, some quotes: one guy makes you feel like he is the most intelligent person in the world; his rival makes you feel like you are the most intelligent person in the world. I started off reading the book to know how to multiply my skills across my team, but the book was about how to multiply people to do more than they've ever done before.

Re: Be Kind

#235

Post by mkramlich » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:22 AM UTC

jorgearturo wrote: post #176

mkramlich wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well said I basically stopped commenting (well, except now -- doh) here on HN because of how frequently I saw toxic responses and punishment down-voting. There are a noisy subset of users here who either (a) can't understand or respect generalizations, especially based on older/real-life experience, or (b) demand "proof" for any claim, or (c) will punish any kind of not-narrowly-PC statement. And then the blatantly r…

I'm against trigger-happy flagging/downvoters too. On the other hand, I actually like the fact that Reddit's and HN's communities are different in that way. I go to Reddit when I'm hungry for lots of information and want to have a good time, also to get in touch with a broader internet community. I come to HN when I want to know what's making an impact, and that means -among MANY other things- surviving criticism. So…

agreed: differences and variety are good

Re: Be Kind

#236

Post by joebeetee » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:23 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #156

Happy to be a data point: If you couldn't have guessed from my HN personality, this is me, as well. Different companies have had different ways of putting it; in the current incarnation, with Erin and Patrick, I'm called "Kanye", as in, "I'ma let you finish". Working on it!

I wouldn't have guessed that. I find your comments measured and thoughtful.

Re: Be Kind

#237

Post by mpoloton » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:25 AM UTC

It requires courage and wisdom to openly accept feedback and reflect on yourself instead of playing the blame game in situations like this.

Re: Be Kind

#238

Post by 0throwaway0 » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:25 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #156

Happy to be a data point: If you couldn't have guessed from my HN personality, this is me, as well. Different companies have had different ways of putting it; in the current incarnation, with Erin and Patrick, I'm called "Kanye", as in, "I'ma let you finish". Working on it!

Don't change too much. Your comments are usually very critical and very technically correct, even if they might offend a project owner.

Based on your HN personality, I know that you're a no-bullshit kind of guy, and that means that your company is at the top of my list for when I start looking for my next gig.

Re: Be Kind

#239

Post by beachstartup » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:26 AM UTC

fsk wrote: post #216

cookiecaper wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. We should be under no illusion -- employment is a popularity contest. In non-startups, the only thing that matters is how much the people around you, especially the high-ranking people, like you. Other things matter only in the most extreme circumstances -- every normal value can be hand-waved away if the boss likes you enough. If you want to be a successful employee, view yourself as a politician and run a s…

Why bother learning how to write software? I should have focused on sales if that's the only skill that matters.

chances are you're not nearly good enough to warrant being a torvalds-esque dickhead.

Re: Be Kind

#240

Post by andrewstuart » Wed, May 13, 2015, 3:26 AM UTC

kind_throwaway wrote: post #203

I've heard this feedback from time-to-time - generally a very nice guy, but I strive to be rational, ego-less and results-oriented. "Be Kind", I couldn't agree more, but here are 3 nuances I've had trouble reconciling when applying this mindset, maybe you've had experience that could be helpful? 1. Stress & Results. Sometimes being kind can get in the way, and directly lead to a loss of results or respect from others…

Passive aggressive behaviour is the direct outcome of someone being on the receiving end of dominating or controlling behaviour. If you don't want people to avoid saying what they think to you then you cannot crush them under the weight of your overbearing manner.