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Be Kind

boz.com

181–190 of 401 posts

Re: Be Kind

#181
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Text does not communicate tone" is a huge problem. You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face. Being kind can be more concise. Here is an example that my fiance recently pointed out... I think the single biggest mistake people make in communication is reminding the other person they are incorrect when that does not change the content. "As I told you Monday, the rea…

Based off of my vague memory, in "How To Win Friends and Influence People", one main point is not to contradict people. In text or in person, never tell someone they're wrong. In general, when I want to correct someone's understanding I frame it as a failure of my own understanding. Like, hey, I'm the asshole here, would you do me a favor by going over this one more time for me? This is great because it allows the ot…

I don't know. I think you can tell someone you disagree outright and still be nice about it. I've been in situations where people act like how you're suggesting (i.e., frame the issue as being with them, instead of with me) and it comes off as a little passive aggressive. I know that might sound odd, but in the end it makes me feel like they're hiding something from me or not willing to tell me what they really think.

Re: Be Kind

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But some people tend to be elitist and frown upon them. :) That may be due to the fact that the little smile at the end of a sentence can look really self-satisfied or fake. Especially if you were to dismiss any complainers by calling them elitists, and afterward tack a smile on the end of the sentence. Here, I'm being nice too! :) :) :)

This is why I use :3 It makes me look stupid, so it can only be a sincere smile. Or maybe I'm just stupid... Well to be fair, we're discussing the psychology of smileys. I have a theory about ":)", that people use it when there's a discrepancy between what they say and what they think, through the same mechanism of humor (which is also about discrepancies). And so in general, I don't trust people who use it strangely…

:D

Re: Be Kind

#183
post #4

I really like these two paragraphs towards the end: Being kind isn’t the same as being nice. It isn’t about superficial praise. It doesn’t mean dulling your opinions. And it shouldn’t diminish the passion with which you present them. Being kind is fundamentally about taking responsibility for your impact on the people around you. It requires you be mindful of their feelings and considerate of the way your presence af…

Being kind also mean being more open-minded.

I visit HN not to argue about the right or wrong, but to get more informed and educated. The more you know, the more you'll be humble and kind to those who you disagree with.

The notion that there is not absolute correctness even for a most trivial problem may be hard for engineers to understand, but I've learned it the hard way. I've learned a lot and working better with others since I started reading more on non-technical books and articles. It's a lot easier to being kind socially than to being kind on technical discussion and decision times. I think every engineering major should take courses in philosophy and psychology or read some related books.

Re: Be Kind

#184
Having never heard of this person before, I've done about ten minutes of research into who he is and why (in the words of his own about page) I should care.

I've come up empty. It seems like he's got enough money now that he feels like engaging in some verbal philanthropy. That's fine, but does anyone have any concrete reasons I should prioritize reading his output over others?

Re: Be Kind

#185
post #86
post #14

The best manager I ever had (and continues to be my inspiration today) was also one of the kindest, genuine, and empowering people I've ever met. Not necessarily nice, but kind. The worst manager I ever had once told me "you're too kind to your team". He wore his ability to bring fear to a room like a badge of honor. I never worked harder and more passionately than under the first and I never felt more apathetic and…

Not disagreeing with you, but there are also leaders like Jobs, Gates, Ellison etc. How come they are able to get amazing results, while being really nasty to their people?

We'll probably never know the truth of the management styles of Jobs, Gates, et al. Only those that worked for them directly will know, and even then the memory will be colored by later events. Something to keep in mind.

Positions of power have a lot of leeway. If you're the big boss, people can't do much to remove you. It's different if you're trying to climb the corporate ladder; there are a lot of people ready and able to stomp on your fingers and knock you down a few rungs at the slightest offense.

Re: Be Kind

#186
post #55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Text does not communicate tone" is a huge problem. You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face. Being kind can be more concise. Here is an example that my fiance recently pointed out... I think the single biggest mistake people make in communication is reminding the other person they are incorrect when that does not change the content. "As I told you Monday, the rea…

> You can solve that by deciding that certain types of communication should be done face to face. And in the case where your only relationship with these people is online in the first place? (As in this community, but also in quite a few FOSS projects or remote-only companies.)

That is a tricky case.

It never hurts to be aware of the issue. Beyond that, try to stay within community norms. Every approach will have failure modes. Know and accept which ones are likely with what you are doing, and deal with them when they come.

In some communities this will mean that you are very straightforward and technical. Don't say anything emotional. Always work from facts. If you are misunderstood, note it, apologize for the misunderstanding, and move on.

In other communities it might mean that you actively solicit input from decision makers, and carefully avoid controversial topics.

A variety of approaches will work. But following strategy X in a community that is set up for strategy Y is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Be Kind

#187

I dunno. I'm not a big fan of the "be kind" angle on things. Too often that translates to, "Withhold the feedback you have for fear that you'll upset the other person." Or, "Don't tell anyone that you think you have a better idea than the one someone else is championing." I generally think that people are "too kind" at work in a lot of ways, and it leads to a lot of grousing and internal stress on the part of the peo…

>>Withhold the feedback you have for fear that you'll upset the other person.

No, that is you failing to have a voice.

The appropriate thing to say is, in a calm a non-emotional manner, "I've got something to say on this but the strength of your communication is leading me to feel I'm not allowed to speak. That's not healthy so lets communicate better.".

It's passive aggressive behaviour to say nothing then snipe from covert position of resentment because you feel you have not been listened to.

You can take responsibility and speak without fear of the other person.

I once worked with a very senior software developer who controlled the outcomes of the technical conversations by getting annoyed and shouting down what the other people thought. As a result people were cowed and did not want to say anything for fear he would get even more annoyed. I eventually had enough of it and whenever it happened I said "I'm sorry but I'm not okay with things going the way you say through being overbearing. I have just as much experience and knowledge as you so my opinion is just as valid on this stuff. If you want it to be your way you'll have to get there a different way than just being overbearing." He kept doing it, I kept saying it calmly. Eventually he started to become aware that he isn't the smartest, just the most overbearing.

Re: Be Kind

#188
Don't know boz, but would probably like him. Hopefully I will bump into him someday.

Somehow, I seem to get along with all of these "raging assholes" that everybody complains about when I meet them. They tend to do interesting stuff, are interesting to talk to, and, generally, aren't attempting to do active harm to you because they're too busy doing stuff.

Of course, if they accidentally do something that harms me or ticks me off, I WILL TELL THEM. Normally, they are the first to apologize and help fix the issue they caused.

I only flip someone into the true asshole category when I tell them what they did to cause me grief, and they don't try to make amends somehow.

Re: Be Kind

#189
bug report: In the article search type in some non English chars like : "אאא". JavaScript exception then breaks the search for good, this must be the first search you make.

Re: Be Kind

#190
I had almost that exact conversation with my boss a few years back (except for the part about almost getting fired). I was completely stunned that people thought I was indifferent to their ideas and bent on finding flaws, because I had actually made an effort not to do that for quite a while before the conversation. It turns out that, at least for me, navigating through people's sensitivities while having a technical discussion and making sure the truth is discovered is extremely difficult.

The effect it had on me was to basically make me clam up, because I decided that pointing out issues that would eventually crop up was not worth the risk of alienating my coworkers. It's hard for me to say whether this was a net positive or negative in terms of overall productivity, because if my shutting up makes the team more cohesive, I can see how finding the problems for themselves would grow their strengths over time. On the other hand, we often make decisions now that I would have questioned before in the process of talking it out (that includes my own decisions often enough because the whole discussion process is chilled). Ultimately, we seem to have a more congenial team (at least on the surface) at the price of having more bugfixes to deal with. Very unclear to me whether I did the right thing, but I can't really think of another way to handle it.

Edit to add:

The other big effect I noticed after learning to let stuff go was that I generally feel a lot less invested in the projects now. Before, I would treat every project I was on like it was my baby, and now I feel much more like I'm just working on somebody else's thing. That's not necessarily a bad thing (my phrasing is poor above, but I'm too tired to fix it at the moment), because it probably more accurately represents the real situation. The sense of detachment does tend to mean that I don't push as hard to go beyond expectations though.

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