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Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

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Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#141

Post by cddotdotslash »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

This is ridiculous. In every other example, we say "innovate or die" (think taxis and Uber). In this case, Mozilla did not innovate as quickly as Chrome, and made a number of bad decisions, which led to their loss of market share. Consumers should not be blamed for picking a new product when it outpaces the old.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#142

Post by Karunamon »

andrepd wrote: post #135
Karunamon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question here is not "Did Eich's presence cause an exclusionary atmosphere at Mozilla?", which is what you appear to be arguing. As you mention, the answer is no. The question is actually "Is it appropriate for someone who takes active steps to treat some people as undeserving of basic rights[1] to take the ultimate leadership role in a diversity focused company?" That answer is no. Going back to your "negotiatio…

>He could repudiate the donation and this would have evaporated overnight. Those views were apparently important enough to him to prevent such an option. So for you the best course of action would be to hypocritically pretend to be sorry in order to appease the clamour of the crows? And as he didn't, as he stayed true to his positions not flipping like a coward because he was pressured to do so, he deserves what he g…

One's principles are not admirable simply because they're principles - surely you know that?

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#144

Post by cddotdotslash »

RexRollman wrote: post #123
yuhong wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most users need to care about it this much anyway.

It is amazing how little people care about freedom in general.

I don't know a single non-technical user who equates freedom with their choice of a web browser. The tech community is in such a big bubble when it comes to this.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#145

Post by Karunamon »

andrepd wrote: post #131
Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*most find offensive. It is possible for someone to be a brilliant technologist and an otherwise awful person. And before someone takes me to task for the words "awful person" - sorry, that's my evaluation of someone who'd rather lose their job than say sorry for the prejudice.

>*most Can you give me some data to support your claim? Or do you abide by the motto "The louder I speak the righter I am?"

http://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changi...

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#146

Post by throwaball »

Nemcue wrote: post #129
teacup50 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla neutered themselves when they 1) stuck with an ancient, bug-riddled, poorly performing codebase for too long, and 2) tripled down on the JS/HTML/CSS trifecta of suck, and 3) then tried to use it to build an OS. Google was the only browser vendor actively trying to move the web stack beyond the technology swamp it's been mired in for so long. There are individuals today who have literally built an entire caree…

"Google was the only browser vendor actively trying to move the web stack beyond the technology swamp it's been mired in for so long." Understand that Mozilla kind of is Google. Where do you think Mozilla get all their money from?

Yahoo!, since they're the default search engine.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#147

Post by byuu »

notsony wrote: post #103
icebraining wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that Mozilla was never a purist organization, but I think the suggestion is well substantiated. From the post announcing it: "With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C EME specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implement EME as well so our users can continue to access all content they want to enjoy. (…) We have come to the point where Mozilla not implementing th…

One could argue Mozilla was quite purist when they ejected Brendan Eich because his personal beliefs were not shared by fellow employees... but more on that later. Perhaps the real reason Brendan Eich was thrown out of Mozilla was because he didn't embrace DRM and EME? Given his stature as founder of Mozilla and creator of Javascript, he could have posed a significant roadblock if he had decided to reject EME's inclu…

Eich voluntarily resigned. He's not your martyr for freedom of bigotry.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#148

Post by notsony »

throwaway150512 wrote: post #60
mike-cardwell wrote: post #18

And here is the end result of people leaving Firefox for Chrome. You neutered Mozilla. There is no longer a browser vendor which has both your interests in heart and sufficient power to direct the evolution of the web. Who now gets to choose which features are built into the majority of desktop and mobile browsers? Advertising companies.

Yeah, so... Mozilla itself deserves to shoulder at least as much of the blame due to a number of decisions that range from mediocre to downright terrible. And I'm not even talking about what happened with Brendan. I'm talking about the organization's downturn during the years that directly correspond with the tenure of people like Gary "JavaScript rendering engine" Kovacs and the years that saw Sullivan at the height…

What happened with Brendan may be very relevant. See my post further up in this thread.

Brendan did not like what the W3C was doing with DRM and was quite vocal about it. His prop 8 donation was public knowledge for years and nobody had a problem with it... but then suddenly the board, the employees and the community were outraged.

As soon as he was forced out the other execs at Mozilla announced they would be implementing DRM and EME. Coincidence?

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#149

Post by Karunamon »

notsony wrote: post #138
Karunamon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting theory and given what we know how how hollywood works in the backroom, plausible, but there are no facts to support it. Eich was not "thrown out of mozilla". The board knew about his donation and appointed him anyways - the pressure for him to resign came from the community and Mozilla employees. Hollywood is great at fomenting outrage, but not that much and not in that way :)

If only company boards listened to their employees and "community" all the time! I think it's about opportunism. A situation developed and by simply stoking the fires of social media outrage, a major obstacle to adoption of DRM in a popular browser could be eliminated. Consider the Mozilla position as soon as Brendan had been forced out - coincidence? > "With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing…

Given that Mozilla is a nonprofit, they've got more reason than most to pay attention.

I don't really buy that narrative that all of Mozilla really really wanted to accept DRM in the browser, but this one guy is such a pain in the ass about shooting it down that they'll promote him and hope that the outrage machine takes him out, and thus fulfill their evil plan to ??????! Muahahah!

Ahem. Made-for-TV movie plots aside, it fails occam's razor, it fails basic logic, and as mentioned there isn't a single shred of a fact to support it. The actual story is shocking enough without trying to read patterns into it that don't actually exist.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#150

Post by notsony »

byuu wrote: post #147
notsony wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue Mozilla was quite purist when they ejected Brendan Eich because his personal beliefs were not shared by fellow employees... but more on that later. Perhaps the real reason Brendan Eich was thrown out of Mozilla was because he didn't embrace DRM and EME? Given his stature as founder of Mozilla and creator of Javascript, he could have posed a significant roadblock if he had decided to reject EME's inclu…

Eich voluntarily resigned. He's not your martyr for freedom of bigotry.

Ridiculous! He was hounded out, forced to resign and you damn well know it.

Bigotry? What are you smoking?

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