Laywers in a class-action should have to accept the same currency in the claim as their "clients"--they get a pile of discount vouchers instead of a pile of cash.
Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
171–180 of 239 posts
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
And through all of this, the Lenovo name will continue to be tarnished. That's where the real damage is.
In 18 months no one will remember this. Honestly, corporations face basically no repercussions from customers because of doing stupid or outright malicious things.
Sony's been on my "do not buy" list since the rootkit debacle. They're missing out on sales of video games, cameras, and other consumer electronics (not to mention music and movies) for their misbehavior. And I know I'm not the only one who remembers.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fair questions. Civil engineering projects may not be the best analogy, because there are some special laws in that space, but maybe consider automobile recalls. How many people went to prison because a car's brakes or ignition didn't work? Criminal product liability is pretty rare afaik.
Criminal proceedings against an entire company don't result in people going to jail, right? Holding people personally responsible is probably not appropriate with this, but holding the entire company criminally responsible and levying fines well in excess of actual damages seems reasonable. Regarding automobile recalls, it looks like GM got hit with some fines for their ignition switch shenanigans, beyond actual dama…
Criminal proceedings against an entire company don't result in people going to jail, right?
While it seems pretty rare for this to happen, the officers of a corporation can be held criminally liable for the actions of the corp.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely not true. I control purchasing for my company, and have caused to be purchased a bunch of Lenovo's. No more, though.
What will you switch to? I lost faith in almost all other laptop manufacturers due to poor quality.
I bought a Dell Precision M3800 for personal use a few weeks ago. It's available without a Windows license which was a plus (I live in Ubuntu-land). Only drawbacks so far have been a) the available Linux drivers for the Broadcom wireless seem a bit wonky and b) a lot of apps have issues with the high DPI display.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Criminal proceedings against an entire company don't result in people going to jail, right? Holding people personally responsible is probably not appropriate with this, but holding the entire company criminally responsible and levying fines well in excess of actual damages seems reasonable. Regarding automobile recalls, it looks like GM got hit with some fines for their ignition switch shenanigans, beyond actual dama…
Criminal proceedings against an entire company don't result in people going to jail, right? While it seems pretty rare for this to happen, the officers of a corporation can be held criminally liable for the actions of the corp.
They can be, but that allows criminal proceedings against the officer, it doesn't change that proceeding against the company, as such, cannot result in any individual going to jail, since the individual isn't the company (they are distinct legal persons) and one person can't be sent to prison based on another person being convicted of a crime.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is one of the selling points. It has been over 5 years since Apple has sold a computer with any third party software on it.
Out of curiosity, what 3rd-party sw did Apple bundle over 5 years ago?
Oddly enough, I have a fresh install of Os9.2 here, from 2001.
It's got IE5, Stuffit Expander, Netscape Communicator 4.7.7, and Outlook Express 5.0.2, and Java.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true, but do you know why it happens? The US has a protection against double jeopardy. If you've been sued once for something, you cannot be sued again (and again, and again) for the same thing. In most cases this is a good thing. It means that once the case is done, it is really done. But companies have learned how to take advantage of it. If they think they are going to have to fight a class action lawsuit…
Anyone who trots out Liebeck v. McDonald's as an example of a "bad" lawsuit is just demonstrating that they're operating from a position based more on opinion than fact. Liebeck sued McDonald's for actual costs of her medical treatment. McDonald's refused to pay for her injuries or admit fault. The jury awarded the massive punitive damages ($160,000 in actual damages and $2.7M in punitive) of their own volition, beca…
I accidentally gave you an upvote (I'm a noob at this UI) and I can't figure out how to take it back. Please read the thing you are replying to before replying next time.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is several different economic losses to calculate here, each surpassing $5. There is the cost of removing the malware, and cleaning up any damages it caused. This is normally done by estimating how many hours a professional would spend on it, and the wages they would demand. Second, is the for-profit claim of "TRESPASS TO CHATTELS". If someone goes and steal a car to run a taxi service, one would look at the il…
Didn't Lenovo release an update that removed the program? The relevant question for the court is probably, how many hundreds of dollars did the average Lenovo customer spend on professional Superfish removal? And the answer is probably zero.
Having read several court cases, I can say I have never seen the court trying to answer the question about how much the average victim would spend on repairs. Its not a question easily answered or find evidence for, and the court do not have the ability to send out a survey.
What I do normally see is the court looking for guidelines regarding damages, and here the relevant question would be what a average person would have to pay in order to remove the malware and restore damages. A laywer could present rates of reputable repair shops has charge clients, and the defense lawyer could argue that the update helped reduce the time a professional would take.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Double jeopardy is a criminal law concept, and this is an issue for civil court. It only applies to the extent that individuals at Lenovo receive criminal charges. Then they are only on trial once. But if they harmed 10 people the same way, then all ten people can absolutely sue to cover the damages they sustained.
It also applies for class action lawsuits. With minor twists. See http://epic.org/blog/2014/03/sometimes-in-class-action-settl... for more.
That's not double jeopardy; that's just how a class action works. In the US, the plaintiff class is allowed to represent you unless you specifically opt out.
But to an extent you are right: if you've already been compensated (in the form a $5 class action coupon) for the $??? privacy harm of a rooted computer? Then too bad - you should have opted out before your class settled.
Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will continue to order as many Lenovo machines as I need. It is more important to me that the vendor serves my needs than what HN thinks about them. I'm not buying something crappy for my purposes because HN is mad.
This is a strange comment. Most people I see on HN like Lenovo because of the quality of their machines. Where I can see a purchasing manager or head of IT against them at the moment is because they surreptitiously installed software which caused a security risk. If you're fine with your company's data possibly being compromised in the future then continue your ordering from Lenovo. I will still buy from them because…
From what I know (admittedly not a ton), many IT people have custom OS images they install on bulk PC purchases. If this is the case, then any malware that ships with Lenovo would be a non-issue, especially because this was the consumer line of Lenovos, not the business line.
However I could be wrong, and perhaps there are companies that feel betrayed. Custom images may be a thing only large companies do.
As a consumer, I still view Lenovo as the best PC hardware and would buy again but would probably be suspicious of any new purchase (as in, wipe the HD and install a store-bought copy of Windows myself). That said, I use the Thinkpad line which was unaffected by Superfish from what I know.