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The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

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Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#131

Post by fixermark »

Zirro wrote: post #68
buss wrote: post #17

Every time I hear about the amazingly low accident rates in current generation self-driving cars I'm reminded of this joke (unfortunately I can't remember the source): Grandpa, what did you do before self-driving cars? Well, we just drove them ourselves. We just needed a little practice and to take a test. Wow, and nobody got killed!? Oh, no, millions of people died.

I can already imagine intense debates about whether to outlaw human-driven cars in a (perhaps not so) distant future.

I imagine this going one of two ways: either human-operated vehicles might be outlawed, or auto companies will apply market pressure to favor people not manually driving (steep, steep discounts in insurance for self-driving vehicles, since many states still require insurance but if the self-driving cars reach the safety goals they're aiming at, it's basically free money for insurers to insure them at any price).

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#132

Post by baddox »

NovaS1X wrote: post #88
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to hear the argument about people who want to ride. I enjoy riding. I like riding horses. I still ride a horse and will not buy an automobile. I participate in riding clubs and I compete in horse racing events. I enjoy horse photography and I do my own hoof maintenance on my steeds. What happens to people like me who actually enjoy riding and the act of owning a horse? Do my loves get phased out because the ma…

Didn't think of the horse perspective. Thanks for that. Still feels bad that some I love doing every day will be regulated to somewhere far removed from where I live and done only a few times a month at best.

Just like horse-riding, it will probably never be relegated below the position of virtually every other hobby in the world.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#133

Post by daeken »

bkeroack wrote: post #110
NovaS1X wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't think of the horse perspective. Thanks for that. Still feels bad that some I love doing every day will be regulated to somewhere far removed from where I live and done only a few times a month at best.

I doubt it will be outlawed. You can still ride horses on public streets in most places (probably not freeways I imagine), but most people of course don't. In the same way you probably will be able to drive cars manually indefinitely, even while most will choose to use autonomous vehicles.

It won't be outlawed; it'll just be priced out of existence. When autos are good enough, insurance costs for manual driving will skyrocket. Only the very richest will be able to afford driving on roads.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#134

Post by _dark_matter_ »

jcoffland wrote: post #95
jedberg wrote: post #85

I'll admit that every time I see one of the self driving cars, I'm tempted to do something crazy nearby to see what it does, like cut it off or swerve towards it. So far I've been a responsible adult and not done that But it's so tempting. Until I think of all the lives I will put in danger. Maybe they can invite me to a test track so I can be an a-hole to the self driving car in a safe and controlled environment. :)

Why is it that we feel this strong urge to mess with robots? They may exact their revenge one day.

You are already too late...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#135

Post by fixermark »

jalonso510 wrote: post #5
cyphunk wrote: post #2

Imagine that for a moment: Self driving car companies could promise to pay all accident expenses provided it was on auto drive at the time of accident. Not only is that a marketing win, potentially reducing accidents and saving costs for owners... if you jump forward many years of Google (or other) defending owners in court you would reach a point even judges would be biased to believe that the auto-driven car could…

Will be really interesting to see how insurance is priced for these cars.

If the safety records meet goals, it's functionally free money for the insurance company regardless of insurance price. So one could predict a race to the bottom for insuring these machines.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#136

Post by buss »

dfan wrote: post #55
buss wrote: post #17

Every time I hear about the amazingly low accident rates in current generation self-driving cars I'm reminded of this joke (unfortunately I can't remember the source): Grandpa, what did you do before self-driving cars? Well, we just drove them ourselves. We just needed a little practice and to take a test. Wow, and nobody got killed!? Oh, no, millions of people died.

I thought it was original when I saw it last month: https://twitter.com/cat_beltane/status/588359354136403969 Had you encountered it before?

I vaguely remember seeing it many months ago, but my memory has been known to lie to me. This may very well be the original source, thanks!

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#137

Post by skrause »

tablatom wrote: post #19
return0 wrote: post #7

When the car is too good and fast to respond, it will get hit from behind it seems. I guess they could change their algorithm to be slow-reacting. dumbing down machines so that petty humans can catch up.

You'd want to get smarter, not dumber: taking into account the fact that the unpredictable (to the car behind) braking could in itself cause an accident, and calculating a best compromise to avoid both collisions, with priority to the more dangerous of the two (the fender-bender could be a great option if you avoid another car doing 50). I'd be surprised if their software doesn't support this kind of thing already.

The priority will be probably be not to hit the car in front of you so that you're not at fault for an accident.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#138

Post by dragonwriter »

dubcanada wrote: post #105
js2 wrote: post #92

About 33,000 people die on America’s roads every year. There will eventually be a fatality caused by a self-driving car. I wonder how many of these we will be willing to accept. Say self-driving cars reduce fatalities by 10x. That is, by switching 100% to self-driving cars there are 3300 deaths a year, but they are all caused by self-driving cars. Would America accept that? I personally doubt we would. I think the nu…

I think the problem is, people really don't care about autonomous objects. There is so many unknowns with this, it's really hard to know. Like if the self-driving car gets in an accident (that is a result of the self-driving car), who is responsible? Google? Me? Other driver? Car maker? Car seller? Insurance company? Humans have kind of accepted that humans make mistakes, you're trained from day 1 to when you die, hu…

> Like if the self-driving car gets in an accident (that is a result of the self-driving car), who is responsible? Google? Me? Other driver? Car maker? Car seller? Insurance company?

The insurance company is not going to be responsible in the first instance, though it may be insuring someone who is responsible.

For the rest, its hardly as if the responsibility for damages that aren't attributable to improper operation but are instead result from the design/manufacture of the vehicle and/or the failure of the owner to properly maintain the vehicle in a safely operable condition have not been extensively litigated already; so, while "self-driving cars" might be a new thing, the legal system isn't devoid of guidance on how liability could apply to them.

> Humans have kind of accepted that humans make mistakes

Self-driving car errors are all human mistakes, even if the mistake becomes visible distantly (potentially in both time and space) from the error itself.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#139

Post by fixermark »

xnxn wrote: post #10
comrade1 wrote: post #4

One thing I'm looking forward to with self-driving cars is to be able to step into a street anywhere and have all the traffic stop automatically. Every inch of street now becomes a crosswalk. Even highways. (This is an ironic statement)

You can already stop traffic by doing this. Why not give it a go? ;) On a serious note: I'm sure strolling into highway traffic will be approximately as legal as it is presently.

Not to mention that with the self-driving cars working as a functional panopticon, doing this and getting away with it for lengths of time is unlikely.

Even ignoring the privacy-scary scenarios of the car auto-emailing the cops to say "Dear local PD, this guy just jaywalked and halted traffic on Oak Ln, here's my [sensor gestalt] to prove it and a [photo of the offender]", it'd be pretty trivial for anyone owning a fleet of these machines who was tired of jaywalkers slowing down their commute to dump data on jaywalk-stops in the aggregate, giving cops all the numbers they need to target enforcement.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car

#140

Post by jcoffland »

EvanKelly wrote: post #114
ender7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that every autocar will have an extremely accurate recording of the accident that can be analyzed and played back during a hearing. Determining fault will be trivial in almost all cases.

Is "autocar" a thing? The ambiguity between automatic/automobile/autonomous really makes me hope a better word surfaces. Self-driving car is a bit too long.

I like robocar.
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