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Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

businessinsider.com

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Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#111

Post by tna »

Omniusaspirer wrote: post #102
tna wrote: post #70

From Justine Musk, Elon Musk's wife during those times: "Extreme success results from an extreme personality and comes at the cost of many other things. Extreme success is different from what I suppose you could just consider 'success', so know that you don't have to be Richard or Elon to be affluent and accomplished and maintain a great lifestyle. Your odds of happiness are better that way. But if you're extreme, yo…

This is a thought I've been having myself a lot lately. None of the successes I have actually leave me happier at the end of the day, they just kind of exist. Trying to balance success with happiness is a curious dilemma since to so many people the two are intertwined. Very interesting read though- I appreciate you linking it here.

Following Justine's thesis: Do you mean that you feel you're an extreme person, like Musk, you must be what you are, which means that happiness is more or less beside the point? Or the opposite: that you're a non-extreme person, and feel that you're focusing too much on success and not enough on happiness?

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#112

Post by Delmania »

While it's not unbiased, his ex-wife's article on their marriage and this comment makes me think Musk has NPD. I was going to say he's a psychopath, but he has exhibited no signs of antisocial disorder. Rather, he's exhibited a lack of empathy and illusions of grandeur.

Seriously, it's more than possible to achieve great things while having an enriching family life. It's about involving your family in your dreams while working on having healthy relationships. It's possible, it takes a lot of work, but most worthy things are.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#113

Post by [deleted] »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #43

"Changing the world." The world is bigger than the technology in it. The world consists of relationships too. I didn't learn this early enough. While you're out building rocketships don't forget to build relationships. What a lonely world it would be if we had everything but nobody to care about us.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#114

Post by sktrdie »

paulrpotts wrote: post #63

The wording the article uses is offensive. A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be. He's there to support the mother, advocate for her, help her make decisions regarding how the birth goes, support the newborn baby, advocate for him or her, and (maybe) make very difficult medical decisions if either is compromised. Most of my children were born without a lot of compli…

> A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be.

But I mean, surely the "witnessing" is important on its own, no?

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#115

Post by TeMPOraL »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #43

"Changing the world." The world is bigger than the technology in it. The world consists of relationships too. I didn't learn this early enough. While you're out building rocketships don't forget to build relationships. What a lonely world it would be if we had everything but nobody to care about us.

Not everyone has to build rocketships. Let the few who want to take one for the team, and the rest can enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#116

Post by clavalle »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #101
clavalle wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My uncle did that. Spent his life on eliminating malaria. Good work. Now he's dead and there are no kids in his line that might carry his intellectual legacy or create their own. Human life is short term. Good genes and culture are long term. If everyone capable burned through their 50 or so years attempting to create a better world in such a hurry there'd be few with the capacity to perpetuate that vision or create…

I'm sorry that your uncle passed away. I wish I could thank him while he was alive for the work he did. You have an interesting point about passing on legacy, but then again there are so many people born every day, that there will be more than enough people to perpetuate the vision if they can learn about it. Having a child furthers memory only temporary. I myself don't know much about my grand-grandparents and have…

You might not remember your great-grandparents but your DNA does. Your family culture does. Much of what makes you, you is built from their legacy. If you are out there learning and applying skills that are making the world better, you can bet that a significant measure of that disposition comes from decisions made by them 100 years ago.

And a hundred years from now our decisions will influence the make up of people trying to advance humanity (or not) in their time as well.

We are lucky as humans that we have effective ways to pass on information to each other and to the future generations and to have plenty of people for that information to find purchase. But I think it is a deep mistake to discount the ancient (and more reliable IMHO) vectors of genetics and family tradition.

I respect people's very personal choices but if I could wave a wand and change one pervasive thing about our world it would be to have people take a much longer view and incorporate that in their decision making. Much longer than the span of their own lives. That shift would lead to very different choices than are made on average today.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#117

Post by chrisbennet »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #104
chrisbennet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those things will matter to people who love you but I suppose it would help a selfish person rationalize loving their jobs more than their family.

That's kind of the point I'm making. Given a choice, why should I promote few people in my inner circle over hundreds, thousands or more other people? This really bothers me. There's a common mentality that says it's OK to harm countless of strangers in order to support yourself and your family. I think that is selfish.

Somehow we've gone from "Elon cares more about his business than he does about his employees - to the extreme."

To: "Would it be OK to be a dick if you're curing cancer?"

And when that didn't play, the argument was reframed again as: "You're harming countless strangers unless you're a dick."

Twist it anyway you want, if someone wants to be a selfish dick, they should own it, not rationalize it. I'm pretty sure the conquistadors didn't do what they did because they wanted to bring Christianity to the New World...

If you can't prioritize (what should be) the most important of your personal relationships above what you want to do, it's unlikely that the real reason you working is because you have a surplus of love for the world.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#118

Post by hauget »

enraged_camel wrote: post #27
hauget wrote: post #9

1) If true, NONE of us here know under what circumstances this happened. Maybe Elon hadn't slept for days at the time and later apologized, or maybe the employee was really at fault. NONE OF US KNOW. 2) Some of the quotes from the book make me think the author merely went through other people's interviews/articles and compiled them into a sensationalist book.

While this is true, it's also worth nothing that HN places Elon Musk on a pedestal and becomes incredibly defensive when someone criticizes him. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle: Elon Musk is no doubt an amazing man, but he is not without flaws. I think we do need people pointing out those flaws to balance out all the hype and hero-worship.

Agreed. I just get angry when people think it's a good idea to chime in on "gossip". This isn't Gawker.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#119

Post by Zelphyr »

sktrdie wrote: post #114
paulrpotts wrote: post #63

The wording the article uses is offensive. A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be. He's there to support the mother, advocate for her, help her make decisions regarding how the birth goes, support the newborn baby, advocate for him or her, and (maybe) make very difficult medical decisions if either is compromised. Most of my children were born without a lot of compli…

> A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be. But I mean, surely the "witnessing" is important on its own, no?

We went through the Lamaze classes where they tell you all the things you'll be doing to help your wife birth your first child. Then we went to the delivery room where the nurses pointed next to my wife's head and said, "you stand here" while they did all the things I thought I was supposed to do.

And, honestly, I didn't mind. It was nice letting the professionals do their jobs and I could sort of be a cheerleader (bad term but its the best I can come up with at the moment) and witness the birth of my child.

Re: Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

#120

Post by ssmoot »

the8472 wrote: post #80
ssmoot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's unconditionally making the world of the family worse It obviously is. The 48 hours or whatever curing cancer can and will continue another time. Child birth won't. And if you can't even afford to prioritize your family at such little cost to your work, then I think it's also pretty easy to assert that the world of the family will continually be worse off. Unless you actually cure cancer next year, collect your…

> Unless you actually cure cancer next year, collect your $1billion and quit your job to focus on your family from then on. Why is a hard cut-off date required? If you take into account that your family extends into the future indefinitely (not just your children) and that there are gradual benefits (not just black-white) then spending time now to gradually improve the world for future generations (including those of…

> it's merely there to illustrate that it gets a lot more difficult to appreciate the value of a little personal time in the present if you have an unusual utility-function in your moral code that applies a lot more weight to the future than most people do.

That actually comes off very egotistical.

The damage you do to your family today by putting a simple job before them is likely to do damage far into the future.

Because you aren't that important. The cure will almost happen (or not) with or without you. The best you can likely hope for is to accelerate it. Everyone is replaceable in a job. Everyone. Parents aren't.

A decade ago I'd have been much more willing to agree with you. But today it feels like a superficial rationalization of ego. One man does not get to Mars.

Seems like this should be one of those named Internet Laws. i.e.: Any mention of "...more than most people" is self-flattery and an indication that the user lacks the empathy to understand that most people have actually considered the same thing at one point or another in their lives. As a corollary, the position professed generally only holds any truth in as much as most people have already considered and rejected it's premise and matured beyond it.

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