Live data from Hacker News

Apple's Mistake

paulgraham.com

171–180 of 285 posts

Re: Apple's Mistake

#171
post #149
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. I recall in particular reading John Carmack a few years back talking about how he was glad Apple wasn't as dominant as Microsoft, because they were far harder to work with. I wish I could remember the quote well enough to search accurately for it.

This may be it: http://kotaku.com/5397908/carmack-working-with-apple-is-a-ro...

I read that too, but that's way too recent. What I recall is maybe 3 or 6 years ago.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#172
post #72

Laptops displaced desktops?! You are deluded. We develop on 8GB i7s with dual 24" screens. We have one at home and one at work, Remote Desktop-ing from each other. Gigabit ethernet and optical fiber internet. No molasses wifi here. We work FAST, we work HARD. But we use Windows 7 too, so we're not limited to Apple's crappy hardware either...

Although I don't think your comment is true, I do have a question for PG: Did you buy the 27" iMac just to use as a monitor, or for the computer part as well?

I bought it as a computer. It's my new, separate machine for using the Internet, as described here:

http://www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html

Re: Apple's Mistake

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not have started out as central to the experience, but I think that it's starting to quickly become just that and Apple knows this or at least they want it to be. So far all the recent iPhone commercials I've seen only focus on the thousands of apps you can get for the iphone - not the iphone's "awesome" feature set. I was looking at a friend's iphone the other day and I saw page after page of 3rd party applic…

What's funny is that in the beginning, Apple didn't even want to provide an API for native applications. They wanted all developers to use the Web API. When developers balked at that idea Apple reluctantly laid out plans for native applications. I wouldn't believe that for a minute. The App Store would have been part of the iPhone product plan from day 1. It's too big, too complex, too strategic, and (yes) too well-e…

I'm not so sure about that. From an interview with Steve Jobs in the NY Times 1 Nov 2007:

“I don’t want people to think of this as a computer,” he said. “I think of it as reinventing the phone.”

"We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.”

The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.

“These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” he said. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.”

Re: Apple's Mistake

#174
post #28
post #22

I wish Amazon gets into the handheld device business. They clearly understand consumers, software, infrastructure & user-experience. They missed the boat with the ipod, here's a fantastic opportunity to do something about it.

Since the "1984 incident" I trust Amazon even less than I trust Apple. At least Apple doesn't yank music/apps/whatever off their customers' devices.

Instead you just "lose" music on your ipod willy-nilly.

Amazon apologized; it's unlikely they'll delete books again. I trust them more.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#175
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faustian bargain? Assholes? Evil? .. really, if this is the most serious accusation of "evil" one can level at Apple then it isn't really going to affect my buying decisions. It's not like they're dealing in small arms or manufacturing cluster bombs. If you step back and think about it all Apple is doing is stuffing up their own app store, which can be classified as monumentally stupid and short sighted but not reall…

Sorry but I believe in a religious way that an hardware vendor should not have the power to enforce what software can run into a device. Like a bike vendor can't force you to only use your bike in a limited number of streets.

That metaphor is wrong. It isn't illegal to jailbreak an iPhone, it just voids the warrantee. You can run any software you like on an iPhone.

A company should have the right to control the user experience offered for a device that it designed and manufactured. That will mean denying a third party's right to bypass those controls.

The user has the right to do anything with the device once they've bought it.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#176
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, having a horrible train-wreck of an approval process like Apple does clearly doesn't mean you can't have unparalleled success either. So I guess we're back to square one.

Umm yes. But nobody seems to be arguing that. The original commenter implied that without vetting the applications, the carriers networks would be in danger. But that reality already exists on plenty of other platforms (even one by Microsoft) without any troubles. The success or failure of the platform is not in question.

Unpopular platforms rarely have problems with third party software, regardless of any approval process.

It's possible that if Windows Mobile had been as popular as the iPhone, then the carriers _would_ have started to see a big problem with malware ruining their networks.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#177
post #61

Part of Paul's reasoning depends on Apps being central to the iPhone experience the same way software is central to the desktop experience. I'm not totally sure this is the case. While apps are certainly a major component to the iPhone, are they really the major factor in end-user adoption? With the exception of games, how many killer iPhone apps are there that don't already ship with the phone? The phone shipped for…

There was a story on here (or somewhere) a while back about how 70% of iPhone apps go unused after the first month of purchasing. Couldn't agree more. AFAICT there is no killer 3rd party app for the iPhone. I'd posit that 95% of the iPhone's awesomeness is wrapped up in the following four (OEM) components: 1) Browser, 2) Maps, 3) E-mail / SMS, 4) Visual voicemail. Everything else, including games, is just fluff for most users. Relative to those four, I think the app store is a relatively small driver of adoption. I don't think a lot of people are that wedded to it, and I don't think it makes Apple a particularly large amount of money either. Which would explain why they continue to neglect it in spite of the vociferous scorn of a few programmers and pundits.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#178
post #61

Part of Paul's reasoning depends on Apps being central to the iPhone experience the same way software is central to the desktop experience. I'm not totally sure this is the case. While apps are certainly a major component to the iPhone, are they really the major factor in end-user adoption? With the exception of games, how many killer iPhone apps are there that don't already ship with the phone? The phone shipped for…

Thank you, I just got an iPhone and I have found zero apps worth downloading. Take this 35 list of great apps http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/15/the-35-best-iphone-apps... and find something useful or fun.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#179
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is that in the beginning, Apple didn't even want to provide an API for native applications. They wanted all developers to use the Web API. When developers balked at that idea Apple reluctantly laid out plans for native applications. I wouldn't believe that for a minute. The App Store would have been part of the iPhone product plan from day 1. It's too big, too complex, too strategic, and (yes) too well-e…

I'm not so sure about that. From an interview with Steve Jobs in the NY Times 1 Nov 2007: “I don’t want people to think of this as a computer,” he said. “I think of it as reinventing the phone.” "We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore.…

From an interview with Steve Jobs in the NY Times 1 Nov 2007

But the App Store was announced to the public only seven months after that, in June of 2008.

If they did all that work in seven months, my resume will be on someone's desk at Apple by Monday. Seriously. I don't want to compete with any large companies that can move that fast. They win.

No, the only reasonable conclusion is that you can't take Jobs at his word when he appears to rule something out.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#180
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that the indentation complaints are valid, but the fix should definitely go through QA while the users continue to suffer. While I'm sure it works on the developer machine, it is much better to have a program that takes a long time and works right than for it to give incorrect results to users, or make a different part of the application stop working. If the feature was really critical and important, QA should fi…

I've seen lots of software that's gone through QA but didn't work. Ever use Microsoft Windows? QA is important, but determining how many spaces a line of code is indented is not QA. That is a code review, which is important, but not critical. There should be automated acceptance tests, so that new releases can be shipped immediately. (It's also worth noting that stuff like indenting, naming conventions, etc. can be a…

I did QA for years (8+) and would love to have developers write a test. Specifically NOT unit tests, but the harder more interesting one. I think it happened once. Or, was it twice?
Post reply on HN