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210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

businessinsider.com

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Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#181

Post by lukaslalinsky »

basseq wrote: post #13

Thought experiment: ignore the holacracy angle and offer everyone in any company 3-months severance if they quit by a certain date. What percentage would quit? I wouldn't be surprised if the average was 10-20% and a vast majority of these people are taking advantage of what they see as a good deal irregardless of their feelings on holacracy as a management style.

I think that only people who do not have particularly good relationship with the rest of their team, and either already have or can easily find another good job. If that's a somewhat stable company, I don't think the percentage would be high. Most people don't like change. If things are okay-ish and you have friends on your team, I don't think a 3-month severance is enough to make you change your comfortable routine. Do some large change at the company, like changing the management structure, moving the company and the chances that people will take that offer will very significantly increase.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#182

Post by dalke »

tomjen3 wrote: post #101
jotux wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability or inability to describe an idea in simple terms has no relation to the validity of the idea. >If Zappos has a unique take on how to replace middle management, let's all hear it. I think their idea is in this book, mentioned in the article, that they asked all zappos employees to read: http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/

>The ability or inability to describe an idea in simple terms has no relation to the validity of the idea. Maybe not in physics, but in politics and business it does - those fields like to seem more complex than they are so they fake it, which is much more difficult to do with simple language.

"Just say no to drugs" - simple terms. Is it a valid social policy given other ways to reduce drug use?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Simple terms. Does it lead to a workable political system?

"Three-strikes law". Simple idea. Does it lead to good social policy?

"Zero tolerance." Another simple idea. Does it lead to good social policy?

"White man's burden." Does it justify the American colonization of the Philippines and other countries?

"Curse and mark of Cain" as used by many religious groups to explain the lower social standing of those with black skin. Valid idea?

"Free silver at a ratio of 16 to 1" - one of the famous slogans of the Populist movement in the US in the late 1800s. Easy to say. Good economic policy?

Or do you prefer "Bad money drives out good" - Gresham's Law - as your economic policy?

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#183

Post by [deleted] »

rifung wrote: post #155
istvan__ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option

Is 30k-40k really correct? That seems a bit high to me.. If you could make even 30k more a year from switching jobs, and you started at the standard 100k, after 10 years you would be making 400k. I haven't heard of any developers who make 400k. Then again, I suppose you never said this was for developers, so is there another job where this actually applies?

[deleted]

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#184

Post by [deleted] »

rifung wrote: post #155
istvan__ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option

Is 30k-40k really correct? That seems a bit high to me.. If you could make even 30k more a year from switching jobs, and you started at the standard 100k, after 10 years you would be making 400k. I haven't heard of any developers who make 400k. Then again, I suppose you never said this was for developers, so is there another job where this actually applies?

[deleted]

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#185

Post by nazgul »

rifung wrote: post #155
istvan__ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option

Is 30k-40k really correct? That seems a bit high to me.. If you could make even 30k more a year from switching jobs, and you started at the standard 100k, after 10 years you would be making 400k. I haven't heard of any developers who make 400k. Then again, I suppose you never said this was for developers, so is there another job where this actually applies?

There's only been one documented (via a lawsuit) in the 400K range, although that was a few years ago: http://adtmag.com/articles/2011/05/27/what-highest-paid-prog...

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#186

Post by istvan__ »

rifung wrote: post #155
istvan__ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option

Is 30k-40k really correct? That seems a bit high to me.. If you could make even 30k more a year from switching jobs, and you started at the standard 100k, after 10 years you would be making 400k. I haven't heard of any developers who make 400k. Then again, I suppose you never said this was for developers, so is there another job where this actually applies?

I was following this pattern: test engineer, administrator, junior developer, developer, senior developer, principal developer, architect, principal architect.

My last 2 job changes were in the 20 - 40K increase range.

250K is not unheard of. I guess this caps out somewhere, but if the US immigration keeps H1Bs under this control than we are going to soon experiencing 300K wages.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#187

Post by danielweber »

Spooky23 wrote: post #61
exelius wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea with Zappos is that they're supposed to be such a great place to work that you wouldn't want to leave. And in Zappos' case, I get why they offered severance deals. They were embarking on a radical experiment in organizational structure, and not everyone is going to be on board with it. Rather than having a bunch of people at the water cooler talking shit about the changes, you offer them money to lea…

I'm surprised the number of people taking the deal isn't higher. If I need religious zeal, I'll go join a religion.

Three months is cool, but it's a big reordering of life. If you enjoy your job, you shouldn't take it. Maybe your next job is worse. And people in SV say "every good developer has 5 offers waiting for him by breakfast" but it's not that way in every part of the country.

On the other hand, if you've been contemplating a job change, take it.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#188

Post by [deleted] »

istvan__ wrote: post #137
SEJeff wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate loyalty died when companies stopped paying pensions, or severely reducing pensions. Our parents always worried about pensions and corporate loyalty. In our generation, and especially technology, we make a lot more money, and can generally make even more by switching jobs. Therefor, corporate loyalty, in the current tech industry, is virtually dead. The one case that it isn't is perhaps companies like google…

Could not agree more, the only downside is that some companies see you as a job hopper, but you can just explain to them that losing 30K-40K/year (aka staying in your job) is not an option

[deleted]

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#189

Post by lazaroclapp »

rifung wrote: post #150
sliverstorm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of reasons to stick around that aren't religious zeal.

There certainly are but are there that many reasons that are good enough to make someone stick around instead of taking 3 months pay while not having to work? I imagine most developers could find a job with similar pay in a month or maybe one and a half, so the reasons would have to be strong enough that you'd give up an extra 10% in salary, or even being able to take a 3 month long vacation. On the other hand, if th…

In the grand scheme of things, 3 months pay is not that significant (a large enough performance bonus can already match that, or a joining bonus for that matter). Now compare that against the chances that you will enjoy your new same-pay job less, or you'll have to move far away, or delay career advancement while you learn the ropes at the new job. There are plenty of potential advantages from changing jobs too, depending on the job, so it actually might make a lot of sense to switch. The point here is that 3 months of salary tips the balance only slightly.

Of course, those who have reservations about working where they are, should take the severance package, but that's the point.

Also, I am a bit surprised that we are discussing 3 months of pay as a magnanimous, almost foolish, concession from management, whereas in many places around the world that kind of compensation is law mandated when you lay-off people without reason.

Re: 210 Zappos employees – 14% of the staff – take buyouts after CEO ultimatum

#190

Post by gohrt »

rifung wrote: post #150
sliverstorm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of reasons to stick around that aren't religious zeal.

There certainly are but are there that many reasons that are good enough to make someone stick around instead of taking 3 months pay while not having to work? I imagine most developers could find a job with similar pay in a month or maybe one and a half, so the reasons would have to be strong enough that you'd give up an extra 10% in salary, or even being able to take a 3 month long vacation. On the other hand, if th…

3 months is less than 1% of lifetime earnings. Not worth throwingaway your plans (whatever your plans may be)
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