Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#81

Post by aikah » Wed, May 06, 2015, 12:12 AM UTC

mturmon wrote: post #44

Mark Lilla has written a series of three articles that appeared in the New York Review that shed a lot of light on how very seriously the recent attacks have been taken in France, and incidentally predicted such a law would be passed. From the first article, written in February ( http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/mar/05/france-... ): "[After the Prime Minister's speech], to the nation’s surprise, the depu…

> how very seriously the recent attacks have been taken in France

The laws that were passed have very little to do with the attacks. All people are saying is, if the executive power wants to spy, and they can already, they need a court order. Increasing executive powers without checks and balances only leads to tyranny and despotism.

When Obama allows drone assassinations, he is killing in your name - assuming you are american. Today it's in Yemen, tomorrow in Canada, in 10 years in US ... These people that failed protecting us at first place don't need more power, they need less. And it's well known that you stop terrorism with human intelligence, not with spying everybody at the source.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#82

Post by lttlrck » Wed, May 06, 2015, 12:14 AM UTC

aikah wrote: post #79

lloeki wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating I wouldn't be so sure, as France and Russia have a long, special history of diplomatic ties, dating as far back as when both were among the most influential countries of the Old World.

That's hardly the case anymore. Hollande clearly made the choice of being an atlantist. Whatever was left of the Russian/French cooperation it's gone.

such relationships extend and survive far beyond the short term of any sitting President or Prime Minister.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#83

Post by KMag » Wed, May 06, 2015, 12:38 AM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #39

smeyer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking of examples in the US with languages other than Spanish, but I wasn't thinking about the substantial populations of francophone immigrants to France.

the difference in size of the country might also be a factor: we're just the size of California, there is not enough "space" (a mix of population and area), to create pockets of people dense enough to self-sustain in a different langage, in an immigration community that would not be the most populous one.

It doesn't take as large an area as you'd think. My buddy Dave's father-in-law was born and raised in Southern Manhattan, but speaks only Cantonese and is unable to hold a conversation with Dave (who is from Taiwan, native speaker of Mandarin and English). Dave's father-in-law's English is so poor that he spelled Dave as "Day" on his lai see packet his first Chinese New Year dating his now wife. Luckily, Dave's father-in-law went to Hong Kong to find a wife, who is conversational in English, Cantonese, and Mandarin.

Manhattan's Chinatown is pretty small (the Mandarin-speaking Chinatown out in Queens is much larger), and yet there are people born and raised there who only speak Cantonese.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#84

Post by brohee » Wed, May 06, 2015, 12:52 AM UTC

meric wrote: post #77

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating. You guys build warships for Putin's war machine which is murdering civilians in Ukraine, something the French knew they were going to empower someday with arms like these. You don't buy helicarriers for defense, you buy them to easily attack your neighbors. Ties between these two nations go back hundreds of years. I would absolutely not assume the FSB…

Do you have a source for heli-carrier being deployed in Ukraine?

He doesn't, because France is not delivering the Mistrals as part of the sanctions on Russia.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/russia-to-order-french-m...

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#85

Post by zmanian » Wed, May 06, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

I wonder if French law makers realize how much power they will inevitably be turning over to foreign intelligence services.

French services has immense new legal authorities and permissive operating environment. They lack access to the financial resources and technical capacities of the NSA and GCHQ.

It seems inevitable that French Services will invite in the NSA to make best use of their new legal authorities. Soon they will find that NSA's primary customers are able to get intelligence at will on internal French matters.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#86

Post by aikah » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:22 AM UTC

lttlrck wrote: post #82

aikah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly the case anymore. Hollande clearly made the choice of being an atlantist. Whatever was left of the Russian/French cooperation it's gone.

such relationships extend and survive far beyond the short term of any sitting President or Prime Minister.

I don't think so, especially when they are that damaged.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#87

Post by aikah » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:34 AM UTC

cognomen wrote: post #61

analyst74 wrote: post #8

Talking to friends lived or are still living in France, here are just some of the problems I heard: - in Paris, it's common to get robbed, and sometimes beaten up if you are not careful, and cops can do nothing. This is from a guy who went to school in Paris, I can't imagine what's it like to be a girl. - some of the non-French speaking neighbourhoods are quite dangerous, even cops would avoid going there for their o…

Yea, in French school, there are bullies. I was pushed around too. Whoa, I don't even lived in bad neighbourhood. About fake IDs, I have heard that a lot in the US. In France, I don't know but who am I to tell, I was born there and I just live there. You can buy alcohol when you are 18 and it is easy to get anyway so young people don't care so there is less binge drinking than in the US. Forbidding something is alway…

> I am fed up of the press that takes France in hostage because Israel chooses to systemically violates international laws and at the same time wants to portrays jews as victims and arabs as terrorists.

Well that's the case, the Jews are pretty much victim of the islamic terrorism in France. It's easy to hide your antisemitism under the umbrella of anti zionism. Fact is it's harder to be a jew today than an arab in France.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#88

Post by rhizome » Wed, May 06, 2015, 2:13 AM UTC

tajen wrote: post #74

tomjen3 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is okay. I stream Spotify through a VPN try to break that much traffic only to find my playlist.

How expensive is a VPN which lets you stream sevetal Gigs a month with good quality?

I haven't tried it, but the cheapest Digital Ocean droplet is US$10/mo. It's a raw (virtual) server you can install whatever you want on.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#89

Post by sans-culottes » Wed, May 06, 2015, 3:31 AM UTC

teamhappy wrote: post #26

It's going to be very interesting to hear their excuses for this kind of nonsense. By now we now it'll hurt the french population most. It'll hurt their economy second (I'm a big fan of Gandi, but that might change very soon), and it won't protect anybody either. I have hoped learning from the mistakes the US gov made after 9/11 would be the one good thing coming out of 9/11.

One would hope they would have learned. But France has always been a police state. The only difference is, now they are now openly admitting to it.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#90

Post by peteretep » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:05 AM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #52

matthewmacleod wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems unlikely at best. Extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary evidence. You haven't provided anything like that, merely a much more complex explanation than the obvious one.

Well, it's been established beyond doubt that in the USA the FBI basically creates terrorists by finding angry people and putting bombs in their hands (and ensures that they complete the plot that was invented for them, even if they wouldn't have been able to do it themselves). They then use the prevalence of terrorism to justify new powers. That's pretty damn close to what iuyoiuyy is talking about. Razor thin disti…

    > it's been established beyond doubt that in the USA the
    > FBI basically creates terrorists

This is where I ask for a citation, and get back one of: nothing, a bunch of links to cancelled false-flag operations from the 1960s, or a bunch of links to websites with name like OPENLIBERTYORG right?