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Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#31

Post by icebraining »

dragonwriter wrote: post #14
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afterward, the entire region was remodeled on American style government representation, modern central banking, market economies and so on. No, not really. The dominant form of government in Europe is the parliamentary republic (several at the backdrop of constitutional/ceremonial monarchies), compared to the more unique federalist model of the United States where there is a strict separation between the union and lo…

> The dominant form of government in Europe is the parliamentary republic You mean "parliamentary democracy" (which is a subtype of representative democracy), not "parliamentary republic". "Republic" specifically means the absence of a monarch, which, as you note, is not a feature of many of the systems at issue. (Some, however, are republics, as well as parliamentary democracies.) > Central banking was initially a E…

You mean "parliamentary democracy" (which is a subtype of representative democracy), not "parliamentary republic". "Republic" specifically means the absence of a monarch, which, as you note, is not a feature of many of the systems at issue.

As far as I know, both are true; most European countries nowadays are republics. There are only 12 monarchies in Europe, and three (Andorra, Monaco and the Vatican) are micronations.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#33

Post by iuyoiuyy »

People need to wake up to the fact that many of these so-called terrorist attacks are in fact being done by the intelligence services, which is to say they are false flag operations, the sole purpose of them being to push through a far right wing agenda that involves surveillance, unending war and eventually Mass incarceration.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-sponsored-terrorism-who-w...

PS: this comment will likely be censored

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#34

Post by smeyer »

nraynaud wrote: post #28
smeyer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American who isn't very knowledgeable about France. Could you expand on this a little bit? There are definitely neighborhoods in the US where even if many people speak English, it's not the dominant language in the neighborhood. For example, places where more signs and labels on shops and such are in some other language than are in English. Are there no similar neighborhoods in France where another language do…

the biggest immigrant community in the US is Mexican so they have a common language that is Spanish. In France it's Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, where they all speak good french and a local dialect of arabic (let's say 60% french speaking people in all 3 countries, declining towards the local dialect), so it's easy to get the French as a common idiom. So you have many languages, but it's easier for everybody to use Fre…

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking of examples in the US with languages other than Spanish, but I wasn't thinking about the substantial populations of francophone immigrants to France.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#35

Post by nraynaud »

analyst74 wrote: post #29
nraynaud wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's time to change your friends? - there is a lot of criminality in Paris and suburbs, but I have been robbed only once, in a real shithole. There is a lot of white collar criminality too. - there are no non-french neighborhood, most people have french citizenship, most immigrants are from a french speaking country, and even inside a high immigration area, since people are coming from different countries, fren…

Your answer shed a lot more light to what's it like in France and corrected my misinformation. The guy told me about the danger of Paris is not French, so are most of his friends. I imagine their ignorance about what's dangerous and what's not caused them to get in more troubles than locals like yourself.

ok, then let's go back on topic: terrorism. Most of the terrorism in France happens in Corsica. This island is the single biggest budget of anti-terrorism in France. It's where the majority of special police forces are working (in number of deployed people, they are trained west of Paris and sent by plane).

in Corsica alone: there were 78 terror attacks in 2012, 21 in 2013, 12 in 2014.

And I can tell you that also there is a strong immigration community in Corsica (among mostly racist and weaponized natives, it must be "interesting"), most of that was done by traditional Corsicans.

Let's go to our other favorite terrorists: the Basques, basically there was a tacit agreement that they don't spill blood in France and they wouldn't be chased (it's over), so they were bombing and killing in Spain and taking refuge in France.

There were bomb attacks in Brittany too, but they are stopped.

A common interesting theme between those 3 terroristy regions: they just love speaking and "defending" a local language ... that is not French.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#36

Post by matthewmacleod »

iuyoiuyy wrote: post #33

People need to wake up to the fact that many of these so-called terrorist attacks are in fact being done by the intelligence services, which is to say they are false flag operations, the sole purpose of them being to push through a far right wing agenda that involves surveillance, unending war and eventually Mass incarceration. http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-sponsored-terrorism-who-w... PS: this comment will like…

It seems unlikely at best.

Extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary evidence. You haven't provided anything like that, merely a much more complex explanation than the obvious one.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#37

Post by S4M »

aikah wrote: post #32

"socialists" ... at that point if you vote PS you're a usefull idiot.

I am politically on the right wing (in the French way), but Sarkozy is no better, honestly - amongst other things, he tried to push his then 19 years old son to become head of the administration managing the business area of La Defense (dealing with several billion of euros). I have no doubt he would have done the same as the PS is doing now would he be in power.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#38

Post by iuyoiuyy »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #36
iuyoiuyy wrote: post #33

People need to wake up to the fact that many of these so-called terrorist attacks are in fact being done by the intelligence services, which is to say they are false flag operations, the sole purpose of them being to push through a far right wing agenda that involves surveillance, unending war and eventually Mass incarceration. http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-sponsored-terrorism-who-w... PS: this comment will like…

It seems unlikely at best. Extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary evidence. You haven't provided anything like that, merely a much more complex explanation than the obvious one.

You can't pretend to have a high standard of evidence and yet never even consider any evidence that contradicts what you want to believe.

Furthermore just because two masked men kills innocent people that does not imply anything about who commit the crime. Your "obvious" belief is only obvious because it's what you want to believe.

All you have to do is look at what independent investigators like Chossudovsky have found and it immediately becomes clear it was a false flag.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#39

Post by nraynaud »

smeyer wrote: post #34
nraynaud wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the biggest immigrant community in the US is Mexican so they have a common language that is Spanish. In France it's Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, where they all speak good french and a local dialect of arabic (let's say 60% french speaking people in all 3 countries, declining towards the local dialect), so it's easy to get the French as a common idiom. So you have many languages, but it's easier for everybody to use Fre…

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking of examples in the US with languages other than Spanish, but I wasn't thinking about the substantial populations of francophone immigrants to France.

the difference in size of the country might also be a factor: we're just the size of California, there is not enough "space" (a mix of population and area), to create pockets of people dense enough to self-sustain in a different langage, in an immigration community that would not be the most populous one.

Re: Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

#40

Post by lloeki »

malka wrote: post #25
fermigier wrote: post #19

This is a huge setback, both for democracy and for the french tech ecosystem. While the most preeminent french hosting and cloud providers (OVH, Online, Gandi, Alter Way...) have been quite vocal about the issue, none of the big french telcos (Orange, SFR, Bouygues) have said a single word about it. Shame on them! 900 tech companies, research organisations, and trade associations (so far) have asked the government to…

I plan to use VPN in area that are NOT friendly with the OTAN, such as Russia. I'd rather have Putin spy on me, than my own governement, or its allies. He has far less influence over my life, and I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating.

> I doubt that french and russian intelligence are cooperating

I wouldn't be so sure, as France and Russia have a long, special history of diplomatic ties, dating as far back as when both were among the most influential countries of the Old World.

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